Peter Stefanovic:
Federal Treasurer Jim Chalmers joins us live now. Treasurer, thank you for your time this morning. So we will get to that in just a moment. I just want to start off with the Middle East, if you don’t mind. Can you elaborate on the successful evacuations so far and the work that’s being done to get the rest out of the region?
Jim Chalmers:
Good morning, Pete. A very good development overnight. 118 Australians and one New Zealander on a flight out of Tel Aviv, which recognises that there was an opportunity, the skies opened up to allow this repatriation flight to happen. And so there are more Australians out of harm’s way now, and that’s a good thing.
We’ve still got more than 3,000 in Iran, we’ve got about 1,200 in Israel registered to get out of what is still a very uncertain part of the world. But I pay tribute to the teams from DFAT and Defence who made this flight possible. Ministers Wong and Marles have also made sure that we’ve got a series of contingencies, whether it’s Defence planes as well as private charters so that when these opportunities arise we can get Australians out of there, out of harm’s way to safety, where they can organise then an onward journey.
Stefanovic:
Okay. There’s plenty to ask you about this morning, Treasurer. Also Donald Trump, I mean, he dropped the f‑bomb overnight. Fairly common privately, but rare to see that language publicly from a world leader. What do you think that shows?
Chalmers:
I’m not going to quibble with the language that President Trump used. I think it does reflect the gravity of the situation in the Middle East and the importance of both sides adhering to this ceasefire which has been negotiated. And so I think the stakes are very high in the Middle East. The implications for the world and particularly the global economy are very significant, and so I think President Trump’s language reflected that. Far be it for Australians to quibble with that kind of language. We are blunt‑speaking people. We heard some blunt speak from the President, and I think that just reflects the fact that the stakes are high in the Middle East and for the global economy.
Stefanovic:
You use that language much, Treasurer?
Chalmers:
I think those who haven’t used that word privately can cast the first stone, Pete. I think, again, it’s not for us to kind of parse the language that President Trump uses. I do genuinely think it reflects the gravity of the situation. It reflects the fact that the stakes are very, very high. We need to see this ceasefire adhered to, and that’s the point that President Trump was making.
Stefanovic:
Okay. Has or will Richard Marles get any time with President Trump at NATO?
Chalmers:
I think that remains to be seen. But regardless, Richard Marles is going to do an outstanding job, as always, representing Australia’s interests at the NATO summit. We have sent the Deputy Prime Minister and the Defence Minister for what is primarily a discussion of defence and national security in Europe. That’s appropriate. Whether or not he gets the opportunity to have a quick word with President Trump, as I understand it, remains to be seen. But the trip for Richard Marles as Deputy Prime Minister is very well worth the effort regardless.
Stefanovic:
Okay. Trump’s style has led to a major boost in defence spending from his European partners. So we’ll get to your wheelhouse now. I mean, it’s up to 5 per cent of GDP in some cases. Are you feeling extra pressure to do more now?
Chalmers:
I understand that the Americans have a view about defence spending around the world with their partners and they have a view about Australian defence spending as well. That’s not an uncommon view or a rare view that our partners and friends would like us to spend even more on defence.
The point that we make respectfully is that we are already dramatically increasing our defence spending. We found room in a tight budget for almost $11 billion in extra defence spending in the forward estimates of the Budget, more than $57 billion extra over the next decade. We’re taking defence spending from 2 per cent of the economy to 2.3 per cent of the economy by the beginning of the next decade.
These are in historical terms very substantial increases in defence spending. They are warranted because the situation in the world is so uncertain, the national security challenges are intensifying. And that’s why we’ve increased our defence spending over a number of budgets now. We think it’s important. We understand and appreciate and respect the fact that our American friends would like us to spend more. We are already spending a lot more and we think that’s appropriate.
Stefanovic:
Your chat with your counterpart in America, Scott Bessent, has that happened yet or is that later on today?
Chalmers:
It happens at 8 am, so very shortly I’ll be speaking to US Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent for the third time. And that will be a really important opportunity for us to talk about the uncertainty in the global economy, the implications of higher oil prices, for example, of volatile oil prices, critical minerals and how we work together there, some of the international tax issues including issues before the US Congress, and also, of course, an opportunity for me to speak up for and stand up for our interests when it comes to these trade and tariff developments over the course of the last couple of months.
Stefanovic:
Well, I mean, that’s a good point you make there on tariffs, because last time you met him over in DC there was that dance over tariffs. They came on anyway. How do you approach that conversation this time?
Chalmers:
This will be the third time that we’ve discussed these really important issues, and our position on trade and tariffs is really clear. We see these tariffs as an act of economic self‑harm. We don’t see them as the act of a friend. And so we’ve been engaging across multiple levels. Minister Farrell has, Minister Wong, Minister Marles, the Prime Minister in his discussions with the President, multiple discussions, over the course of the last few months. We’ve made it really clear that we would like to see these tariffs lifted.
I wouldn’t anticipate that this phone conversation we’re having at 8 am today would resolve all of those issues in one conversation. But it reflects our willingness to engage at every level, to stand up for and speak up for Australia’s interests, especially in light of these escalating trade tensions which do risk doing damage not just to the economies of the US and Australia but the global economy more broadly. There’s already too much global economic uncertainty. We’re well placed and well prepared to deal with it, but we won’t be immune from it. All of this engagement is about making sure that we put our best foot forward and speak up for and stand up for Australia’s interests.
Stefanovic:
So how would you – how would you argue against, you know, if they want to increase taxes on superannuation investments in the United States, for instance, how do you argue against that?
Chalmers:
I suspect that will be an important part of the conversation today. Certainly, I intend to raise section 899 of the so‑called One Big Beautiful Bill, which does pose a risk to the very substantial investments that Australians, particularly Australian super funds but also the Future Fund and other institutional investors are making in the US. That flow of investment is a really important part of the mutually beneficial two‑way economic relationship.
And so I’ll be raising those issues because there are elements of that bill which will be before the Congress before long which do pose a risk to our funds. We don’t want to see that. And the argument that we will make is that we shouldn’t be caught up with – our funds and investors shouldn’t be caught up in that Bill.
Stefanovic:
I know you’ve got to go, Treasurer; you’ve got to get to this call, but just a final one here on the roundtable that’s coming up. There’s increasing pressure on raising the GST. The states want more of their cut as well, including your state of Queensland. Are you becoming more open to an increase in the GST more so than you once were perhaps?
Chalmers:
I don’t know about increasing pressure, Pete. I think we’ve seen these sorts of calls certainly over the whole time that I’ve been involved in politics. And it’s not unusual for the states and territories to put their hand up for a bigger revenue base or for more Commonwealth support, more Commonwealth funding. That’s been a pretty frequent occurrence over recent years and recent decades since the GST was introduced.
I’ve had a lot to say about the GST in the past. I’m not walking away from those comments that I’ve made. But what I’m also trying to do is to not artificially limit or narrow the conversation or the issues that people will raise at the economic reform roundtable that I host in Canberra in August. And so that’s my objective. People will come and raise all kinds of issues. That’s a good thing. We believe that the best way to work out what comes next in our economy when it comes to our already substantial program of economic reform is to do that together. That’s what my focus is and that’s what the roundtable’s focus is all about as well.
Stefanovic:
All right. That’s the federal Treasurer Jim Chalmers ahead of that call with his American counterpart Scott Bessent coming up in half an hour’s time. Treasurer, appreciate your time, thank you. We’ll talk to you again soon.