Sally Sara:
Jim Chalmers is the federal Treasurer and joins me in the studio this morning. Treasurer, welcome back to Breakfast.
Jim Chalmers:
Thanks very much, Sally.
Sara:
What do you make of these developments overnight in Davos?
Chalmers:
We’ve always said that the future of Greenland is for the people of Greenland and Denmark to decide. This announcement that President Trump has made has only just been made, and so we’ll go through the details as always. I think we’ve been pretty clear about our views on tariffs throughout as well.
Sara:
What do you think of the language of the Canadian Prime Minister, Mark Carney, talking about a rupture?
Chalmers:
Well, I thought Mark Carney’s speech was stunning. I thought it was very impactful, very thoughtful, certainly widely shared and discussed in our government and no doubt around the world. And I think the powerful point that he made is that a lot of the old certainties are breaking down, we see that in escalating trade tensions, the Russian invasion of Ukraine, discussions in NATO, you see it in behaviour on markets, which I obviously watch very closely as Treasurer. So, we are going through this period of extraordinary change. There are a series of ruptures brought about by at least 4 economic shocks in the last couple of decades and so these shocks that Mark Carney’s referring to, they are in some ways the new normal. They no longer punctuate long periods of calm in our economy or in the world.
For Australia, no doubt for Canada, the point that Prime Minister Carney was making is that our interests are best served by cooperation and by managing our differences within international law and international institutions. In Australia, we were big beneficiaries of that calm that existed between the end of the Cold War and the beginning of the GFC. And so the broader task, for us and for Canada is to work out not just how do we shield ourselves from all of this churn and change, but how do we help shape it in our interests so that the big shifts we’re seeing in the economy – in areas like energy, technology, industry, demography and all of these geopolitical tensions – work for us and not against us.
Sara:
So briefly, how does Australia manage the kind of role as a middle power that Mark Carney is articulating, but at the same time maintaining a relationship with the United States as an economic, trade and defence ally?
Chalmers:
We engage with the world as we find it and we play the cards that we’re dealt. We’re very enthusiastic about our participation in international institutions. We engage bilaterally with our partners, friends, and allies. It was only I think last week I was in Washington DC speaking with my American counterparts and counterparts from the G7 about the Australian critical minerals opportunity. And so, we engage wherever we can and whenever we can in the interests of Australian workers and businesses and our country more broadly and part of that is working with middle powers like Canada to try and shape this very uncertain global environment in our interests.
Sara:
Let’s return to politics back home. What do you make of this mass resignation of Nationals from the Shadow Ministry?
Chalmers:
Well, the Coalition’s collapsing. I think whatever the Nationals decide shortly, it’s become very clear the Coalition is a smoking ruin. They put internal politics before public safety this week in what I think was a shameful way and they’re paying a price for that. So they’re divided, they’re divisive, they’re dysfunctional, they can’t stand each other, they can’t work together. I think Sussan Ley’s obviously on borrowed time, but to be fair to her, all of the alternatives to Sussan Ley and the Coalition are worse.
I think any Australian watching the developments in the Coalition this week would conclude the Coalition is a three‑ring circus. It’s not an alternative government. From our point of view as the government of Australia, we won’t be distracted by all of that. We’ve got work to do and we’re getting on with it. We’re maintaining our focus on the economy, on the cost of living, housing, public safety, national security at the same time as the Coalition is collapsing around us.
Sara:
What do you think about some of this internal disunity continuing today on what is the National Day of Mourning?
Chalmers:
I think they can’t help themselves. This three‑ring circus, which is the Coalition now, they’re so exclusively focused on internal politics that they can’t see what’s really important here. And what’s really important here is that today, on this sombre day, this day of mourning, that we unite in grief and in resolve and in solidarity. It’s not a day for internal politics, it’s a day to remember the brave and beautiful people whose lives were changed or cut short and it’s a chance to show our support for the Jewish community and to everyone impacted by this tragedy. That’s what this National Day of Mourning is about and should be about.
Sara:
Just finally on economics, the OECD’s latest report says there should be a greater sense of urgency about improving the public finances here in Australia. Treasurer, are you confident that your colleagues are on board for major reforms to the Budget in May?
Chalmers:
I believe so. We’ve made a lot of progress together as Australians and as a government on the budget. The budget is hundreds of billions of dollars stronger than what we inherited. We delivered 2 surplus Budgets, we’ve got the deficits down, we delivered a very responsible mid‑year update with the Cabinet colleagues not that long ago, only in December.
Sara:
This is a stern warning from OECD.
Chalmers:
We know that there’s more work to do on the budget, we’ve made that clear even before this OECD report. But the key conclusion from the OECD is that Australia’s managed a soft landing in our economy better than other countries and that our policies as a government helped avoid a recession. The OECD report is an endorsement of our tax cuts, our competition policy, our focus on cleaner and cheaper energy, our focus on housing, but it is also a useful reminder that the big challenges that we will confront this year as a government and in the Budget are inflation, productivity and global uncertainty – they are the government’s focus and they’ll be the focus in the Budget too.
Sara:
Jim Chalmers, thank you for joining us in the studio this morning.
Chalmers:
Appreciate it, Sally. All the best.
Sara:
Jim Chalmers, the federal Treasurer.