SARAH ABO:
Treasurer, good morning to you. All right, so this aims to help suppliers. Will it also mean cheaper prices for struggling consumers?
JIM CHALMERS:
This is all about a fair go for farmers and families. It’s about ensuring that the big supermarket chains do the right thing by their suppliers and also by their customers and it’s all about making sure that if we have supply chains which are fairer and supermarkets which are more competitive, there will be benefits for people at the checkout.
ABO:
When do you think that will happen? When will Aussies start to see fairer prices at the checkout?
CHALMERS:
Well, we’ve got to legislate these changes and we’ve got a pretty full book in the parliament but we’ll legislate them as soon as we can. We will require the support of the Opposition and/or the minor parties in the Senate in particular but we want to get this going as soon as possible. It’s really all about making sure that the Food and Grocery Code is mandatory, that there are big penalties for people who do the wrong thing and that there are better avenues for people to make complaints and resolve disputes. So it’s an important set of changes – not the only thing we’re doing in relation to supermarkets to try and make them more competitive so people do get a better deal at the checkout, but an important set of changes which come from the review that Craig Emerson did for us.
ABO:
No point breaking up the giants?
CHALMERS:
We’re not recommending that, not proposing that. We think this is a better way to go about some of the objectives that people are seeking.
ABO:
All right. Cool, moving on, and, gee, that nuclear debate has really fired up. Name‑calling, a sledge from a former PM but a new poll today, Treasurer, suggests that voters don’t hate it.
CHALMERS:
Well, I think what that shows, once again, there is overwhelming support for Australia’s renewable future. The future of this country is renewable – it’s cheaper, it’s cleaner, it will be more reliable. And what we’ve seen – this nuclear shambles from Peter Dutton – is economic insanity, pure and simple. The path that Peter Dutton wants for Australia is the more divisive path. He’s divided his party over it, he can’t provide key details and nuclear, as we know, costs more, it takes longer, it pushes up power bills. He’d create extreme investor uncertainty and it would squander Australia’s unique combination of advantages. So you can see why it’s gone down so badly – it’s falling down all around him, and that’s because every time he or his colleagues are asked about this nuclear shambles it raises more questions than it answers, because it can’t be economically compelling if he won’t tell us how much it will cost.
ABO:
Well, it’s not like we know how much renewables are going to cost long term, either. I mean, 6 out of 10, according to News Limited actually don’t mind nuclear, Treasurer. So maybe you misjudged the mood of the public.
CHALMERS:
Well, I think even in some of those opinion polls you’ll see that overwhelmingly people prefer renewable energy as a bigger part of our future energy mix but I’m not focused on those numbers, I’m not focused on those polls. I’m focused on the economics of this and nuclear energy for Australia is economic insanity for all of the reasons that I’ve run through –
ABO:
All right, well, if you are going to focus on costs, as you are, the reality is the cost, the actual cost, is unknown. Isn’t that the same case with renewables?
CHALMERS:
No, we’ve made it clear in our Budgets. We’ve budgeted for the investments that we’re making to attract more private investment in our future as a renewable energy –
ABO:
Well, what’s the cost of rolling out renewables, then, Treasurer?
CHALMERS:
Well, if you look at the AEMO report which talks about $121 billion from now until 2050, which is less than a tenth of the figures that Peter Dutton is bandying about. We know what AEMO says, the energy market operator says, about our investment needs. We know the kinds of investment we’ll need from the private sector to make the most of this global net zero energy transformation. We don’t know from Peter Dutton how much his nuclear fantasy will cost but we do know nuclear takes longer, costs more, pushes up prices, creates investor uncertainty, and it’s not right for Australia because we’ve got the best combination of renewable energy opportunities, and we’d be made not to make the most of them.
ABO:
It does feel like a long way away, though, doesn’t it – decades’ time and billions of dollars.
Treasurer, thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate your time this morning.
CHALMERS:
Thanks, Sarah.