WALEED ALY, HOST:
Let's start with point three of your plan: the repairing of the supply chain. Given how much of the problem is due to pandemic disruptions overseas, even the war in Ukraine, what can you sitting in Canberra really do to fix that?
JIM CHALMERS, TREASURER:
The task for this government, Waleed, is to focus on where we can make a difference. And I think we can make a difference when it comes to these skills and labour shortages by training more people, which will be something we'll discuss at the Jobs and Skills Summit in a few weeks’ time. We can make a difference in energy by introducing cleaner and cheaper and more reliable energy into the system. We can make a difference when it comes to investing in those supply chains, whether it's advanced manufacturing or other parts of the supply chain. And a lot of those issues have been festering for some time, made worse by COVID, but neglected really for too long. And so part of our job is to do what we can to try and repair those supply chains and take some of those inflationary pressures out of the system.
ALY:
But what, it just takes me back to the question, but what is it that's concrete that you can do given that so much of what is causing the problem is beyond your control?
CHALMERS:
A big part of it is global, but not exclusively. We've got issues around skills and labor shortages, which mean that a lot of these supply chains can't operate as they would if people had the workers that they need. So training more people as a tangible thing that we can do.
ALY:
But we also have very low unemployment. The labour shortage isn't about people not being skilled, there's just not people. That's a migration issue really.
CHALMERS:
It's partly about skills. It's partly about migration, you're right. But it's about building a bigger, more productive, better trained workforce. And part of that is making it cheaper for people to return to work after they have kids that will make the workforce bigger and deal with some of these skills and labour shortages. So that's another tangible thing that we're doing. Making childcare cheaper is a really important economic reform.
GEORGIE TUNNY, HOST:
Treasurer, if you can sort out the supply chain, you're still going to need some money to be able to buy the things. So let's talk wages. Labor has promised that wages are going to go up under this government, however that's really independent of government, right? So what can you do to make sure and guarantee for people that they will start getting paid more? And when can they see it?
CHALMERS:
The new numbers that I released today show that there will be relatively strong wages growth, but it won't for the very near term catch up with some of this extraordinarily high inflation that we've got. So unfortunately, for the time being, real wages will continue to go backwards. But sometime in 2023‑24, according to the Treasury forecasts, we'll get that real‑wages growth, which has been absent for too long. And the way that we do that, part of it's about moderating inflation, but also it's about having a policy to get wages moving again: training people for higher wage opportunities; making it easier through childcare for people to work more and earn more if they want to do that; investing with our National Reconstruction Fund in good, secure well‑paid jobs into the future; and we'll be supporting a pay rise for aged care workers at the Fair Work Commission as well.
So there are tangible things that governments can do. And we have been doing them and we will continue to because the absence of wages growth in our economy for the best part of a decade now has been one of the defining economic challenges that people have confronted.
LISA WILKINSON, HOST:
Treasurer, one of the problems that everyday Aussies have got is having enough money in their pockets. And if you're serious about helping out with those cost‑of‑living pressures, wouldn't you extend the cut to the petrol excise?
CHALMERS:
If we could afford to do that, that'd be a different question. But unfortunately, now we've got this budget, which is absolutely heaving with debt, which is getting more expensive for us to service because the interest rates on that debt are going up. And so we've got to be up‑front with your viewers about what we can and can't do. And I think people, you know, they won't be happy when that comes back on but I think people do understand.
ALY:
I guess the reason the petrol excise is such a focus is that it flows through to everything. So it's individuals spending money to get to work, who live a long way out from the city or whatever. It's that but it's also transporting food, and all these other things that show up that make things really expensive right now, over the next 18 months when inflation is out of control. And I suppose when I listen to you explain the things you're doing, they're all indirect, like, you know: we invest in this, which will flow through the economy that will create you know, upskilling or you'll support increasing the minimum wage, but actually it's not your called, it's Fair Work's call. So you're asking for it, but it's not direct. The petrol thing is the one really direct concrete thing you could do for this acute period of high inflation that would help in all kinds of plenary ways. It just seems odd that's the one thing you won't do.
CHALMERS:
First of all, I mean, I don't entirely agree that, you know, giving childcare relief, for example, is not a direct, tangible thing that we might do. But to pick up your broader point, which I do understand, Waleed, I know that people would like us to continue that relief forever. And my choice is -
ALY:
Not forever. Actually, that's the point.
CHALMERS:
Well, even for a little longer. But my point is, my choice really, as Treasurer, is to pretend that everything's fine and we can continue to extend these programs. But I do really need to be responsible and upfront with people. And so I'm not going to lie to your viewers about that, Waleed.
ALY:
To be clear, I'm not asking you to lie. But I guess what you're saying is about priorities. What I'm trying to figure out is why this sort of pattern of prioritising the indirect over the direct.
CHALMERS:
It is partly an issue of cost, too. I mean, that six‑month program costs around $3 billion and so it's not cheap. And you know that's one of the things that we need to weigh up as well.
ALY:
Treasurer. Thanks so much for your time.