1 October 2024

Press conference, Blue Room, Canberra

Note

Subjects: funding for ACCC to crack down on misleading pricing practices by supermarkets, escalation of conflict in the Middle East, Qatar Airways and Virgin proposal, meeting with UK Chancellor of the Exchequer, competition

JIM CHALMERS:

Thanks everyone for being here relatively early. Spending most of the day in the Cabinet room with colleagues getting ready for the MYEFO and so I wanted to make a couple of announcements this morning and then touch on some other issues and then obviously happy to take your questions as well.

Today we’re taking decisive action to help consumers get fairer prices at supermarkets, in stores and online. Misconduct in the supermarket sector is unfair, it’s unacceptable, and it makes cost‑of‑living pressures worse for Australians.

So what we’re announcing today is all about more resources for more investigation and more enforcement and more sites for competition. That’s what this announcement is all about today.

We don’t want to see ordinary Australians and families and pensioners being taken for a ride by the supermarkets, and we’re taking steps to make sure that they get a fairer go at the checkout.

We know that the checkout is a big part of the cost‑of‑living pressures on Australians, and it’s a big focus for the Albanese Labor government.

So today we’re announcing a $30 million package which will support the ACCC crackdown on misleading pricing practices and poor conduct. We’re supporting more investigations, more enforcement in the supermarket and retail sectors, which will empower the ACCC, it will allow it to monitor behaviour and investigate concerns about supermarkets and retailers falsely justifying higher prices.

In addition to this crackdown, I’ll also work closely with states and territories to progress reform of planning and zoning regulations as fast as possible so that we can boost competition in the supermarket sector by opening up more sites for new stores.

So this is all about more resources for more investigation and more enforcement and more sites for potential competitors to the big supermarkets.

We want to make sure that people are getting a fair go at the checkout and that’s what this is all about today.

Now of course what we’re announcing today is not in isolation, it’s in addition to a whole range of actions that we’re taking when it comes to cost‑of‑living pressures faced by Australians at the checkout. We’re making the food and grocery code mandatory, we funded CHOICE to do its important work, and we’ve banned unfair contract terms, we’ve increased penalties for breaches of competition and consumer law, we’re delivering the most significant merger reforms in half a century.

The next phase of the ACCC supermarkets inquiry will see the ACCC conduct public hearings with the supermarket sector later this year, and of course it follows last week’s announcement that the ACCC is taking legal action against Coles and Woolworths for allegedly misleading customers through discount pricing claims on hundreds of everyday products.

We’re cracking down on the supermarkets because we know that people are under pressure, a big part of that is the cost‑of‑living pressures that people face when it comes to food and groceries, and so that’s a big focus for the Albanese Labor government. This is why we’re providing more resources for more investigation, more enforcement and more land for potential competitors to the big supermarkets.

I also wanted to briefly touch on 3 other issues before I took your questions. The first one is in relation to Virgin and Qatar. Qatar Airways and Virgin have today announced Qatar’s intention to buy a 25 per cent stake in Virgin. That transaction is expected to go through the relevant approval processes including FIRB and also the ACCC review process. As the relevant decision-maker on foreign investment applications, it wouldn’t be appropriate for me to pre‑empt that process or comment further. We expect the components of the deal related to international flights would also be subject to ACCC merger authorisation consideration. As I understand it the ACCC hasn’t yet received an application and that part of this consideration is a matter for the ACCC and my role in it is on the Foreign Investment Review Board, and when I get that advice, I will consider it in the usual methodical way.

I will say more broadly, we do want to see a strong competitive airline industry that delivers for consumers and here I want to shout out the great work of Minister Catherine King through her Aviation White Paper and in other ways. We want to see a strong and competitive airline industry. We have some processes to go through now when it comes to this application and it would be inappropriate for me to go into detail on the FIRB aspects of that.

The next issue is Lebanon. We know that the situation in Lebanon has escalated overnight; that is deeply concerning. We are gravely concerned for the human cost of an escalation of this conflict. We continue to urge restraint and de‑escalation because further hostilities put the lives of tens of thousands of civilians at risk. The global community has been really clear that the destructive cycle in this part of the world must stop. We call again on parties to agree to the comprehensive ceasefire deal brokered by the US, Qatar and Egypt and endorsed by the UN Security Council. Delays in agreeing ceasefires are costing lives, and Lebanon, as Penny Wong said, cannot become the next Gaza.

We do not mourn the death of a terrorist leader responsible for all of that destruction in the Middle East, we do mourn the loss of so many innocent lives in the Middle East. Too many lives have already been lost to this conflict. An escalation of this conflict risks even more innocent lives. Too many families, too many children have already been lost to the conflict in the Middle East and the escalation risks making that worse.

The last point that I wanted to touch on before I take your questions is I met via video last night with the new UK Chancellor of the Exchequer Rachel Reeves. We got to know each other a little bit when Rachel Reeves was in Opposition, but this was our first formal conversation since Chancellor Reeves took office. I’m really looking forward to working closely with her. It was a really welcome opportunity to compare notes on the global and domestic conditions and also our efforts to strengthen both of our economies. There’s a lot of uncertainty and volatility in the global economy right now and conversations like the one I had with Chancellor Reeves help us to navigate the uncertainties of the global economy right now. We discussed the UK economy, budget preparations, the Australian economy, Chinese economy and my recent visit, and their efforts to support growth, global economic volatility, supply chain security, our efforts to boost the flow of capital in both of our economies, and we also talked about the upcoming G20 meetings in Washington DC and I’m looking forward to seeing her there in person when they meet in a few weeks’ time.

Happy to take some questions.

JOURNALIST:

Just with the $30 million in additional funding, has the ACCC expressed to you at all that they need more money in order to investigate or is it your expectation that more cases like the one they’re prosecuting now might pop up?

CHALMERS:

They’ve made it clear that they can do more if we resource them better and that’s what we’re doing and that’s what this $30 million is all about. This is a really substantial injection of funds to make sure that they can do more of their good work and we engage pretty regularly with the Chair of the ACCC and with her colleagues to make sure that we are getting a fairer go for people at the checkout, and the ACCC has done some terrific work in recent times and we want to make sure that they have the resources to do that, the resources to do more investigating, more enforcement, at the same time as we work on some of these other planning and zoning issues.

JOURNALIST:

But what does that enforcement look like? We know that Coles and Woolworths are before the Federal Court, they might be slapped with massive fines, as multimillion dollar companies, they could pay the fines and keep the prices high. Would the ACCC have any other powers to actually drive down prices at the checkout?

CHALMERS:

Well, a couple of things about that. First of all, on the specifics of the case, I’m not going to engage in the specifics of the case before the courts. I think what we’ve seen in recent times is an ACCC empowered by the government and willing and able to do its job so long as it’s got the resources to do it and that’s really what today is all about.

Today is about making sure the ACCC has the resources to investigate and enforce the current laws. There’s also a process underway, a review being led by them to determine whether other powers and laws are necessary.

JOURNALIST:

When it comes to having discussions with the states and territories about planning and zoning laws, you’ve obviously got a lot of different jurisdictions there, a lot of decisions are made at local council level. What can you feasibly do as a federal government in that space?

CHALMERS:

I think it’s right to recognise that a lot of the planning and zoning powers are held by other levels of government and that’s why national leadership is so important if we want to get a good outcome here for the Australian people.

There are concerns about land banking and other issues, and we don’t want to see competitors to the big 2 supermarkets unnecessarily locked out because more competition is good for consumers, more options are good for consumers. We’ve seen in the work, the good work of CHOICE and others that other better deals are available if people can access a wider range of supermarkets. And so what we’ve said with the states and territories earlier in the year is we wanted to revive competition policy, very serious about that, working closely with my colleague, Andrew Leigh, and with the state and territory treasurers, but we want to pull this out and do this a bit quicker because we think there’s an obvious case for Commonwealth, state, territory and local government cooperation because the powers in many instances are held by other levels of government. We all recognise the need, there is a willingness and an enthusiasm to engage at all levels of government because together, by working together we can get a better deal for the people we represent.

JOURNALIST:

Treasurer, on Lebanon, the past few days we’ve seen community leaders saying that the government’s rhetoric, they’re feeling disenfranchised by it, and they want you to go stronger, especially it appears now a ground invasion is imminent. Do you think there’s a disconnect between the language that the government is using and what the community expects? Are they tiptoeing around the issue?

CHALMERS:

No, I don’t agree with that. But I understand and respect that our communities are hurting, and this is a difficult time for people and we are gravely concerned primarily with the human cost of this conflict, and particularly the escalation of this conflict.

We say to people who are in Lebanon, Australians who are in Lebanon, that they should get out as fast as they can. We say to people who are hurting right now, we understand that this is a difficult time. We mourn the loss of every innocent life and we are gravely concerned that the escalation of this conflict means the loss of more innocent life and that’s why we have engaged in the international community and as well we reiterate our calls for a ceasefire.

JOURNALIST:

Sorry, if I can just go back to the land banking for the supermarkets. Is there evidence that say Costco, Aldi and IGA are looking to buy sites, and if not is there any point in making Coles and Woolworths sell?

CHALMERS:

There is evidence that the more options people have the more likely they are to get a fairer deal and that’s our motivation here and the work that I do with the state and territory treasurers and the work that they do with local governments will be all about building that evidence base for action. There are concerns around land banking, there are concerns around anti‑competitive practices and this work that I’ll do with my colleagues and counterparts is all about getting to the bottom of that and taking action where we can.

JOURNALIST:

Treasurer, speaking in broad terms, do you think that foreign investment has the potential to make a meaningful difference to consumer prices in the aviation sector in general, along the lines of this deal? And briefly, if I may, are you concerned about rates from the Reserve Bank by commercial banks, do you think they should continue confidential briefings?

CHALMERS:

Well, in reverse order, Tom, if the commercial banks are going to receive confidential briefings from the Reserve Bank, they should be kept confidential, and I have some sympathy for the Reserve Bank when it comes to the issue reported today in your newspaper.

People should respect the process and the agreements and where that hasn’t happened, there will be consequences and I will leave them in the capable hands of the independent Reserve Bank. It’s not for the Treasurer to manage or police agreements between the Reserve Bank and the commercial banks when it comes to private briefings, but I do share the concern reported today in your paper that some elements of confidentiality may have been breached and I’m sure that our colleagues at the bank are working through what that means for the way that they conduct those briefings and who’s at fault.

JOURNALIST:

Treasurer, going back to the ACCC investigation you announced before. You’ve always maintained that inflation in Australia has been primarily caused by, you know, global supply chain, impacts on the global supply chain. Do you think the ACCC’s allegations [INAUDIBLE] claims advanced by the Greens that, you know, business, is I guess using inflation prices [INAUDIBLE]?

CHALMERS:

Look, I’ve made it really clear for some time now that our inflation challenge has a number of sources, some of them are global and some of them are domestic. And what we’ve shown a willingness to do and an ability to do is to try and deal with the different aspects of that inflation; electricity prices, rent, early childhood education, medicines, trying to deal with the inflation where it exists. We know that a big part of the cost‑of‑living challenge is felt most acutely when people are at the checkout.

I know from my own community how stressful it can be when people are at the checkout watching the numbers steadily add up and hoping that they don’t have to put things back if they’ve reached their budget. We understand the stresses and strains that people are under right now and that’s why addressing the cost‑of‑living pressures is still the government’s number one priority, it’s why we’re rolling out cost‑of‑living relief, and it’s why, if we can make our supermarket sector more competitive, we will. It’s why we’re providing more funding for the ACCC to do its important work and to do it well, because we recognise that inflation has a number of sources.

I think a lot of the stuff that the Greens say about this lacks credibility, not necessarily the one issue that you raised there, but the Greens’ job is to write press releases, our job is to take action. Our job is to fund the regulators, to empower the consumer watchdog, the competition watchdog, and that’s what we’re doing, and that’s our focus.

JOURNALIST:

Treasurer, just want to actually to go back to something you said when you stood here yesterday. You said that it was not unusual to get modelling done by your department on various ideas that are out there in the public debate. What else are you looking at, are you looking at rent caps? Are you looking at capital gains tax? Are you just getting the information in front of you? And in the interests of having the kind of adult conversation that you’ve talked about for more than 2 years now, wouldn’t it be sensible instead of sort of having a debate that’s kind of like trying to grab at fairy floss to actually put the substance of this modelling of all these kinds of ideas so that there can be an informed debate with proper facts?

CHALMERS:

A few things about that. First of all, as you partly acknowledged in the beginning of your question, this is the fourth press conference I’ve done in 6 days and I’ve made myself available to answer all of these questions about negative gearing and capital gains and other issues, but I really don’t have anything to add to the answers to many questions I’ve been asked in the first 3 of these 4 press conferences.

It’s not unusual for treasurers to seek advice from time to time, particularly when it’s about contentious issues. We have a serious housing challenge in our economy and in our communities and any treasurer doing his or her job would want to be across the issues that are in the public domain and in the parliament and that’s what’s happened here.

We’ve made it really clear from the Prime Minister down, we’ve got a broad and ambitious housing policy, this isn’t part of it. Our priority is supply and our focus is rolling out $32 billion of investment and when it comes to the national economic conversation, and I have done my best throughout the course of the last couple of years to inform people about the sorts of choices that we have before us, I’m not going to go into the detail of discussions I have with my department about these sorts of issues. I caution you about making assumptions about complete pieces of modelling or other work. I think I said that in relation to Michelle Grattan’s question yesterday if memory services. I’ve answered this in some detail before, and I don’t really have much to add to that.

JOURNALIST:

Treasurer, the Competition Review that you started in August of last year, it’s now 13 months in. Did anything on your actions today about the ACCC and land banking come out of that review? Is the review looking at the supermarket sector in particular, and how far progressed are ideas out of the review?

CHALMERS:

One of the things I’m most pleased with with the way that Andrew Leigh and I set up that Competition Review is we didn’t say it would have a start point and then some specific end point way down the track and that we would wait until the whole piece of work was finished before we took action and so the biggest merger reforms in half a century, they came out of the work of the Competition Review, some of these other considerations have been informed by the work of those terrific colleagues in the Treasury who were doing this work on competition. And so we’ve been very deliberate and very upfront and said that our Competition Review work is iterative and when good ideas emerge from that, if we can implement them, we will. We saw that with mergers, we’ve seen that in some of the other considerations that Andrew Leigh has spoken about in the public domain, we consult very closely with that team, and they help inform the sorts of choices that we’re making.

JOURNALIST:

Treasurer, can you guarantee that the measures you’ve introduced today will lead to lower prices at the checkout?

CHALMERS:

I can guarantee that a more powerful and better resourced ACCC gives us a much better chance of getting a fair go at the checkout for people and we have seen how effective the ACCC can be doing its job and doing its job well. My job is to resource it effectively and that’s what this is all about today. This is about more funding for more investigations and more enforcement and it’s about more land for potential competitors. That’s what this is all about today, because we know that competition is a force for good in our economy and we know that the more competitive the supermarkets are the better chance we give people of getting a fairer go at the supermarket and because we know that people are under pressure.

I am going to take one more from you but I just remembered that there was part of Tom’s question before that I didn’t answer, and I didn’t mean to neglect it. You gave me 2 pieces and I forgot the second piece. You asked me about the role of foreign investment in airline competition. Obviously I’m not going to go into the specifics of the bid that is before us. The Foreign Investment Review Board will provide advice to me in the usual way, they’ll do their diligent work, and they’ll provide advice, and I’ll come to a decision.

We do want the airline sector to be stronger and more competitive. We know across the economy, not just in the airline sector, that foreign investment can be in our national interest, and my job and the Foreign Investment Review Board’s job is to determine the national interest and make decisions consistent with it.

JOURNALIST:

You said that your government will consider new laws if fines from the ACCC are not doing enough to drive down prices at the checkout. What would those laws potentially cover?

CHALMERS:

I don’t want to pre‑empt the sorts of considerations of the ACCC’s review or the other considerations of the government. I think with that quite a long list of steps that we are taking, we’ve demonstrated an enthusiasm and a willingness to crack down on supermarkets to give people a fairer deal and whether it’s the work on the mandatory code, whether it’s the funding for CHOICE, whether it’s the penalties for people who do the wrong thing, the mergers regime, supporting the ACCC and empowering the ACCC, this is a government which is on the side of the consumer at the checkout.

We know that people are under pressure, we know that this inflation challenge has made it harder for people, and we want to make sure that people can access a fair go when they’re at the checkout, and more broadly, we’ve made good progress on inflation over the last couple of years, we’ve made good progress on budget repair, we’ve made good progress on wages, but we know that people are still under pressure and that’s why we continue to find new ways, whether it’s empowering the competition and consumer watchdog or in other ways, we are always looking for ways to do more and to do better, because we know that people are under the pump.

Thanks very much everyone.