Kara Cook:
Well good morning everyone and welcome to the Ampol Lytton refinery in Bonner. My name is Kara Cook, I’m the federal Member here and I’m so delighted to welcome all of these wonderful people behind me, including Treasurer Jim Chalmers and also Minister Chris Bowen here to Bonner today. I’ll be handing over to Matt, who is CEO of Ampol, to do the introductions this morning. Thank you.
Matthew Halliday:
Thank you very much, Kara. And welcome everyone. I’d like to start out by acknowledging the traditional owners of the land that we’re on today – that’s the Quandamooka people – and pay my respects to elders past, present and emerging.
So welcome, everyone to the Lytton refinery. Lytton is celebrating its 60th year of operation, one of the last 2 refineries operating in the country. I’d like to extend a very special welcome to the Treasurer, the Honourable Jim Chalmers, and the Energy and Climate Change Minister the Honourable Chris Bowen. I’d also like to acknowledge the Member for Bonner Kara Cook, and would also like to acknowledge our MOU partners for the renewable fuels project that we have under study here at Lytton, IFM, Danny Elia, Jesse Scott from GrainCorp. I’d also like to acknowledge Shahana McKenzie from Bioenergy Australia and Su McCluskey from the National Farmers Federation.
So welcome to Lytton. It’s great to be here today. I think – just before I hand over to Minister Bowen I just wanted to talk to the project that we are studying here. With our partners we’re studying a project that would produce around 750 million litres of sustainable aviation fuel and renewable diesel. The heavy part of the transport sector is not an easy area to abate, and that’s where a drop‑in solution – low carbon liquid fuels – are a logical solution. That’s why we have the project that we’re studying here today.
It delivers ultimately a decarbonisation benefit but, equally, it delivers energy resilience benefits and from a manufacturing and a broader agricultural point of view, some broader economic benefits. So I think there’s a lot to play for for the country, and it’s great to see the government coming out with the policy announcement that it has today. A further supply side measure which sits very nicely alongside a Guarantee of Origin consultation scheme that’s been running since earlier this year, and we look forward with our partners and industry bodies to continuing to work with the government around the demand side measures that ultimately can bring a policy framework together that can help this industry stand up in Australia and help Australia take its rightful place in this sector.
I’ll now hand over to Minister Bowen.
Chris Bowen:
Thanks very much, Matt. Thanks for having us here today again, Jim and I are regular visitors, and we’re always pleased to be here.
More Aussie jobs, more profitable Australian farms and lower emissions. That’s the win‑win‑win that the Albanese government – Jim and I – are announcing today. You know, about half Australia’s energy comes in the form of a liquid – diesel, petrol and associated liquids – and about a third of our emissions. And electrification is important, but it’s not the answer for everything. There’s plenty of parts of Australian industry that will rely always on liquid forms of energy. And so we’ve got to reduce the carbon in those liquid forms of energy – in petrol, in diesel and other things and that’s exactly what we’re announcing today – the Cleaner Fuels Fund, the $1.1 billion fund to support the production of Australian cleaner fuels.
We want to see this refinery, this facility, work for another 60 years. We want to see Geelong work in the future as well. We want to see more Australian jobs right across the country taking great Australian products like canola, tallow and other agricultural products, and in some cases waste products, and turning it into lower carbon liquid fuels – cleaner fuels. Because as Matt indicated, things like aviation and shipping and, to some degree, heavy transport are hard to decarbonise. And part of the answer – a big part of answer – is lower carbon fuels, cleaner fuels. And as Matt knows and as every worker here knows, that places like this are very important but will need to change. Consumers, investors, everyone is demanding lower carbon fuels. So, to secure their jobs into the decades into the future we need the sorts of initiatives that Jim and I, together with Catherine and Julie are announcing today.
This fund will be open for bids from Australian manufacturers of lower carbon liquid fuels – cleaner fuels – to get support, similar to our Solar Sunshot program and some other programs that are running under the Future Made in Australia agenda. It will require these fuels to be produced by 2029, which is about – Matt would say, I’m sure – about as quickly as we can get a major industry up like this in Australia. But it’s a very important investment in Australian jobs, in lower emissions and in job creation and more opportunities for Australian farmers.
At the moment around 70 per cent of Australia’s canola, for example, is exported. And exports are great, but even better will be taking that canola and turning it into lower carbon fuels here in Australia and that’s exactly what this scheme will do.
So Jim and I are absolutely delighted to announce it, and I thank Jim for his very, very strong support of this agenda. When we come to announce our 2035 targets, it will be ambitious and achievable, and part of the achievable end is showing Australians what our plans are, and this is part of that today – showing Australians how we can create jobs and lower emissions at the same time, and we’re delighted to announce that today.
Jim.
Jim Chalmers:
Thanks very much, Chris. I want to thank Matt and the team here at Ampol at Lytton, back here. Once again, I acknowledge the investors and peak organisations, the business leaders and also the AWU and its workers represented here at this really important site.
This refinery is a really important part of a community that Kara Cook now represents. I acknowledge Kara as well, my relatively new neighbour here in Bonner. Kara understands, Chris and I, everyone here understands just how important this refinery is, not just to the recent industrial past of our local community in Southeast Queensland but to the future as well and that’s what today is really all about.
Low carbon liquid fuels represent a very big economic opportunity for Australia. Scaling up a low carbon liquid fuel industry is a really important way that we maximise the industrial benefits of the shift to net zero. From the farm to the refinery, primary production to processing, this will create more jobs and more opportunities for more Australians right around the country.
We know that cleaner and cheaper energy is one of the most important ways that we can build a stronger economy and lift living standards into the future, that’s what today’s announcement is all about. And this is what a Future Made in Australia looks like – investing in a low carbon liquid fuel industry to get those emissions down, to strengthen our economy and to lift living standards into the future.
This is also all about making sure that we maximise the benefits of the net zero transformation in our economy. That’s what today’s announcement is all about, and it’s also what our targets will be all about as well. Our new target will be responsible and orderly and considered. It will be good for the economy and good for the environment and it will meet our obligations to future generations as well.
We know that net zero is a huge economic opportunity for Australia. Low carbon liquid fuels have a big role to play in that, and that’s why today’s announcement is so important.
I’m going to throw to Shahana and then she’ll throw to Su.
Mckenzie:
Thank you so much, Treasurer. Thank you, Minister and thank you local member.
I would like to say a massive thank you to the government for this support. This is the first time that this industry has been given this level of support, and it is going to have a massive impact in terms of Australia’s economy, in terms of jobs in regional Australia. Our feedstock at the moment in Australia, it could be delivering 60 per cent of Australia’s aviation fuel market right now from renewable feedstocks. In 2050 that could be 90 per cent. We are talking about billions of extra dollars in GDP and tens of thousands of new jobs in the regions. This is a regionally exclusive industry. So, look, we are absolutely delighted with the announcement today and very happy to take questions.
Over to you, Su.
Mccluskey:
Thank you very much, and thank you to the Treasurer and Minister Bowen. It’s a pleasure to be here. And I think it’s an acknowledgement of the important role that agriculture can play in terms of contributing to domestic production of low carbon liquid fuels. And the NFF certainly welcomes the announcement today of $1.1 billion into supporting the domestic industry.
Australian agriculture already produces a huge amount in terms of export, into the EU, for example, canola, sugar and of course, agricultural byproducts into the biofuels sector. This will actually enable diversification. It will enable us to be able to produce for the domestic market but, importantly, the economic opportunities it will bring are enormous for regional jobs, and this is not just for farmers this is for the supply chain, critically solid fuel capability. And I think when you look at energy security along with food security these are critical things for the agriculture sector. So thank you to the government for the announcement today And we look forward to working with you.
Chalmers:
Thanks, Su. Happy to take some questions.
Journalist:
Treasurer, when will Australia start to feel this $1.1 billion?
Chalmers:
So this is a substantial investment which will flow from 2028. It’s all about scaling up this really important industry, making sure that we make the most of the net zero transformation. Now, the Clean Energy Finance Corporation has said that they expect this industry to be worth something like $36 billion by 2050. We know that whether it’s refineries like this one or others around the country that this assistance will be really important in scaling up and getting started so that we can get this industry up and running.
I’ll see if Chris wants to add to that answer. Okay. Any other questions?
Journalist:
Why does it need such a significant government subsidy?
Bowen:
Well, because this is a new industry. And right around the world governments are doing similar things, supporting the development of industries. We recognise that when you’ve got a new industry starting from scratch which requires significant capital investment, that will come down over time. This is an incredibly appropriate government investment. There’ll be a lot more private sector investment unleashed, unlocked by this. This sort of government investment is not going to be the majority of the investment, but it’s important for unlocking the private sector investment which will flow afterwards.
Journalist:
I’ve got a question about the climate target, if I can. Will the 2035 target be as ambitious as possible or is it about setting a goal that’s achievable?
Bowen:
Well, the first people who will know my recommendation on the 2035 target will be my cabinet colleagues. That’s a process that will unfold. But I’ve been consistent – the target has to be 2 things. It’s not an either/or – it has to be ambitious and achievable. There’s no point having an ambitious target that everyone knows you can’t achieve. There’s no point having an achievable target which doesn’t push behaviour and drive investments. So the target that we set after I’ve recommended it to our cabinet colleagues will achieve both of those aims.
Journalist:
With the, you know, quote ‘cascading urgency’ of the climate disaster outlined in that report, why would we extend the life of the North West Gas Shelf, and would you consider banning exports of fossil fuels to countries where the carbon emissions are set to increase?
Bowen:
Again, we’ve been very consistent. And, again, it’s easy on both sides of the argument, you know, to be frank. The Greens say all gas is bad. The Liberals say gas is the answer to all our problems. Our position is a carefully calibrated evidence‑based position. We will need gas in Australia for many years to come to support renewables. And, guess what? So will other countries in our region. They will need gas. You can’t move to 100 per cent renewables immediately. Gas is a very flexible form of fuel. Gas‑fired power stations can be turned on and off at a few minutes’ notice. When it’s turned off, it’s got zero emissions. So that’s very important. That’s before we even get to heavy industry and home heating. So just as we will need gas in Australia – and we’ve been very clear about that – to support renewables, so will countries in the world. Minister Watt has very assiduously and competently applied the law of the country. That’s his job as the Minister, and that’s what we’d expect him to do.
Journalist:
And what about coal exports to the likes of Japan and China, those heavy emitters?
Bowen:
Again, we’ve been very clear – we see our role as working with countries to help them decarbonise and use more Australian renewables and to be a reliable supplier of additional forms of energy in the meantime. That’s the right balance.
Journalist:
So the climate report suggests we’re spending more on disasters and collecting less tax. How worrying are these findings for the government?
Bowen:
Well, it was a very serious and important report. The Treasurer might choose to add in a minute. But a very serious report that I released on behalf of the government 2 days ago, the National Risk Assessment. It was prepared by 200 scientists consulting with 2,000 other scientists and economists. It’s a serious document. And the report as I said outlines the degree of confidence for each prediction that they hold. This is a report to government – our government didn’t write a word of this report. We didn’t interfere; this was an independent report provided to me which I released. And I’ve been disappointed to see the response from our political opponents. Whenever they’re presented with an opportunity to embrace science, they dismiss the science. The difference between us and the Opposition is that we accept the science. We don’t think we know better than the 200 scientists. They do.
Chalmers:
Climate change poses an extreme economic risk and net zero provides us with a very substantial economic opportunity. And the reason the cabinet works so closely with Chris and I as Treasurer and other colleagues work so closely with Chris is because you can’t separate the climate threat from the net zero economic opportunity. And so the report that was released on Monday, I think, was a really important contribution because it lays out the risks for Australia and for the world.
Now, the worst possible outcome from an economic point of view and an environmental point of view would be if we walked away from net zero, as our political opponents want us to do. The Liberal Party is run now by this weird collection of cookers and crackpots and nowhere is that more obvious than when it comes to net zero.
I see that the Opposition Leader is giving a speech today about some of these issues and related issues. The speech that Sussan Ley is giving today is the exact same speech that Joe Hockey gave before the Liberals last came after pensions and Medicare when they were last in office.
These are the same Liberals who went to the election with a policy for more debt, bigger deficits, higher taxes and lower wages. These are the same Liberals who left us higher and rising inflation, plummeting real wages and living standards and a trillion dollars in Liberal debt. These are the same Liberals who described our investments in Medicare or the indexation of the aged pension as wasteful spending. Now, these Liberals haven’t learned a thing, they haven’t changed a bit. They are as divided and divisive as they have ever been. You see that in their approach to net zero and you see that in the Opposition Leader’s speech today. Now, our government, our Labor Party, is defined by responsible economic management. Their party is run by cookers and crackpots and I think they are the real audience of Sussan Ley’s speech today.
Journalist:
Treasury officials told a senate committee that they had been modelling a specific 2035 target, for example, 55 per cent, rather than a [Inaudible] 65 to 75 and they’d been asked to do so before the election. Did you ask the Treasury to model a specific figure before receiving Climate Change Authority advice, and was that target decided upon [Inaudible]?
Chalmers:
A couple of important things about that. The Treasury modelling will be released alongside the announcement that we make about our climate targets. As Chris rightly pointed out, that target has not been determined yet. It will be determined by the cabinet. It will be based on the Climate Change Authority advice and on Chris’s recommendation to the cabinet colleagues and so we’re not pre‑empting that.
The work that the Treasury has done and the modelling that the Treasury has done has been to help inform the considerations and the deliberations of the cabinet. You can’t model every single outcome, and so the Treasury has modelled an outcome within the range that the Climate Change Authority was consulting on. I don’t think that’s especially controversial or especially surprising. Of course the Treasury takes its time to do the necessary work to provide the cabinet with the information that it needs to make a decision. And, once again, as I said before, when we release our targets for 2035, they will be responsible and considered. It will be all about an orderly transition, because that’s what’s best for our economy and for the environment and when it comes to our obligations to future generations.
Journalist:
BHP today said that it will cut 750 jobs. Will these announcements [Inaudible] as the nation transitions away from coal [Inaudible] the state government?
Chalmers:
Well our primary concern is for the BHP workers who are losing their jobs on this occasion. And we know that this is a commercial decision. We’ve seen the reasons that BHP leaders have given for this decision and my understanding is that the state government is in discussions with them because BHP has identified some state policies leading to this decision. So our primary concern is for the workers. This is a very difficult day for hundreds of workers in Queensland. These are very uncertain times and our resources sector is really important to our economy, the state economy, the national economy as well. Also when it comes to the clean energy transformation, the mix of resources is changing over time. Partly that’s the story about global demand, but there are other issues as well. BHP has nominated some of them, and they’re in discussions with the state government about it. Our thoughts are with the workers.
Journalist:
Are Queensland coal royalties too high given they’re so much higher than every other state in Australia?
Chalmers:
Well, as you know – you’ve been to a few of these press conferences – I try not to second guess or take shots at state governments for the policies that they put in place to try and manage –
Journalist:
But are you’re take on this is valid as the federal Treasurer?
Chalmers:
–their budgets responsibly. I don’t take shots at state governments of either political persuasion. Now, BHP has nominated the royalties as a factor in their decision, those are state royalties, it’s a matter for discussion between the state government and BHP. As I said before, we know that this is a difficult day for hundreds of workers and their families, and that’s our primary focus.
Journalist:
Jarrod Bleijie labelled BHP’s consideration of closing the training centre at Mackay as ‘un‑Australian’. Do you agree with that sentiment?
Chalmers:
Well, we want these training centres to stay open. The resources sector has a big future here in Queensland and, indeed, right around Australia. Our resources sector is really important. And we want to make sure that we’re training Australians for the jobs that exist now and the jobs that exist into the future as well. And the training centre at Mackay has an important role to play in that.
Journalist:
Treasurer, are you concerned about –
Chalmers:
Let’s go here and then here and then back to you, and then we’re probably done.
Journalist:
We heard overnight that Trump took shots at ABC journalists saying he was going to dob on them to the Prime Minister, I guess. What’s your comment on that so far?
Chalmers:
Well, a couple of things about that. First of all, President Trump and Prime Minister Albanese have had a number of very warm conversations already. I think 4 conversations at last count. And they’ll meet in due course.
When it comes to the ABC, I respect the ABC and I respect its independence. And that extends to not second guessing the questions asked legitimately by journalists at press conferences. Journalists have got a job to do and as far as I can tell, that journalist was just doing his job in Washington DC. I don’t second guess the questions asked by journalists, whether it’s in DC or elsewhere. I respect the independence of the ABC.
Journalist:
Do you expect the President and the Prime Minister to meet next week?
Chalmers:
They’ll meet in due course. I don’t have an update on that for you today. They’ve already had 4 very constructive, very warm conversations, as you know and they’ll meet in due course. The timing of any meeting will be a matter for the Prime Minister to announce.
Journalist:
And just a question for Minister Bowen: the 2035 target will be announced later this week. Given the Climate Risk Assessment, do you agree with Greens groups that anything less than 75 per cent will be locking Australia into climate catastrophe?
Bowen:
Well, I think Jim and I have made pretty clear we’re not announcing a 2035 target today. We’re announcing a very important initiative today. I’ll draw you back to a couple of things I’ve already said – that I’ll be making my recommendations first to my cabinet colleagues and then before journalists and answering questions. But I’ll make this point, again the Climate Change Act is world’s best practice. Our government introduced it. It is the best, most rigorous process for setting a 2035 target in the world. It requires the government to consider the Climate Change Authority advice and it requires the Climate Change Authority as a matter of law to consider the science and the need to hold the world as close as possible to 1.5 degrees warming. That’s the law of the land, and this government is complying with that law.
So all that will be laid out, and as Jim said, when we release the target and we won’t just be releasing a target, we’ll be releasing a significant amount of documentation and a lot of work by the government and my cabinet colleagues on the evidence to support a strong, robust, responsible target economically and based on the science and how we intend to get there. Obviously anything between 2025 and 2035, there’s some degree of uncertainty around developments, technological developments, but based on the best evidence and the best forecasts before us from the Climate Change Authority and other experts right across the government, that’s what we’ll be doing.
Journalist:
Treasurer, the US –
Chalmers:
It might be the last one, I think.
Journalist:
The US Chamber of Commerce has raised concerns around Australia’s tax regime, particularly around multinational disclosure of sensitive financial information [Inaudible] Australian operations. What’s your response to this? Do you think it will be [Inaudible]?
Chalmers:
That remains to be seen. We want to make sure that multinational corporations pay their fair share of tax here in Australia. We’ve got a broad and ambitious agenda in that regard. From time to time, countries, not just that one, raise issues with us about our multinational tax regime, and we work through those issues in the same considered, methodical, consultative way that we approach a number of these difficult issues in the budget and in the economy more broadly.
Thanks very much.
Journalist:
Any comment on ANZ? Any comment in relation to ANZ?
Chalmers:
I think what we’ve seen from ANZ was appalling and a disgraceful breach of trust. And, as I said earlier in the week, I fully and completely support the important work of our regulators because whether it’s big banks or other businesses, if they do the wrong thing they should face these harsh consequences and that’s what we’re seeing here.
Now, from time to time when I’m asked about these processes that involve the regulators, they often involve ongoing legal processes, and so I need to be careful not to prejudice those kinds of processes, and I generally err on the side of caution. But I think what we’ve seen here, these revelations, they are appalling. They do represent, I think a disgraceful breach of trust and you’ll see that when it comes to the AOFM that they haven’t been using the ANZ bank when it comes to their dealings since these revelations became known, I think that’s appropriate. But at the end of the day a decision for the AOFM to take without my interference. Thanks very much.