ALAN JONES:
Treasurer, good morning.
TREASURER:
Good morning Alan. It shows the importance of Alan Jones that I have the Minister for Finance, the Minister for Trade, the Minister for Economic Services all waiting for me and I said I have to take this call from Alan Jones and they know who Alan Jones is over here, more as a rugby coach of Australia as they do as a broadcaster.
ALAN JONES:
That's good, that's good, we like that. Now look there is – well I suppose people trying to make controversy. A book has been written about you called Hockey, Not your Average Joe and what's being suggested is, that you believed that the Budget that you brought down wasn't tough enough and that your Prime Minister, your Leader, Tony Abbott was responsible for a more cautious approach. I just want to ask you this because I meant to talk to you earlier before I went away, how has it come into the public perception that this is just a ruthless, dreadful, uncaring Budget? I take the view that you have taken as well that this whole entitlements issue has got to be addressed, I think you have addressed it sensitively. It is nowhere near the way it is being presented. Is this an agenda or something, or have people not misunderstood it or have you just sold it badly?
TREASURER:
Well Alan, I mean the challenge has been that the critics have sometimes got the loudest voices. In economic terms, it was half the savings that Paul Keating had in a number of his Budgets and half the savings Peter Costello had in his first Budget and over here in New Zealand, there is a very good lesson: if you make the hard decisions early on, the benefits come with more jobs, higher wages. The Kiwis have been telling me, that as a result of their Budget coming back to surplus, in the next 12 months, you are now seeing for the first time, more New Zealanders come back to New Zealand than those that have been leaving which is extraordinary. And you know what else Alan? The top tax rate in New Zealand is 33 per cent, 33 per cent! In Australia it is heading to 49 per cent. And the lesson out of this is, if we live within our means – the quicker we can start living within our means, the better quality of life, the better quality of jobs we are going to have in the medium and long term.
ALAN JONES:
See now, you make the New Zealand point. I have already made the (inaudible) to the English Chancellor Osborne but Ian Duncan Fraser (inaudible) former Leader of the Conservatives as you know, was charged with doing the same sort of things that you and Abbott have been talking about. That is, look we have got to make it less easy for people just to automatically have benefits; we have got to encourage people out of benefits into work. Now it is such that, the equivalent of the Governor of the Reserve Bank in Britain now doesn't know where to turn because the budget forecasts were for unemployment of about 7.5 per cent. They now have unemployment in Britain down to close to six per cent, all as a direct result of squeezing benefits and saying now hang on, you are able to work, go out and work and stop relying on other people to pay for your wellbeing. I mean, that is all you are saying, isn't it?
TREASURER:
Well, that's exactly right. If you have the capacity to work in Australia, we need you to work, we need you to work, and the fact is, there are a number of Budget initiatives that have already started. For example, we have put in place an incentive payment for employers to pick up people who have been on Disability Pensions for over the age of 50 and that $10,000 incentive payment has started already. So, we are trying to encourage employers to change their attitude to older workers and we…
ALAN JONES:
Now Susan Ryan is making a speech Joe, to interrupt you there, in Melbourne today, which all Australians agree with, she says, 'look why are employers so biased against people who are over the age of 45'. Now, she has made this point many times before. Now, I had a caller on the open line here, who said that he could not get, no matter how hard he tried, he could not get two people to be four wheel drive accessory fitters and that was – people to put in bull bars and roof racks. I said I will get the jobs but he said we've gone to the Internet; we've gone to newspapers advertisers, no one. Well, I said okay here we go out there, give me the number and he gave me the number and we had 14 applicants in five minutes. So, there is something amiss that isn't balancing but Susan Ryan is right, how do we breakdown amongst employers, this bias against older workers?
TREASURER:
Well, the first thing is to show more respect for older workers and recognise that they have a level of wisdom and experience that can be of great advantage in the workplace and I think there is no better illustration of that – I mean – I am one of those guys who just finds great solace in walking into Bunnings on a weekend, walking up and down the aisles. And you know, you look at the wisdom of the guys who come up and say, 'no look I think you should do this, why don't you try this'. Bunnings have done it. I am not about (inaudible) individual businesses but they have done it brilliantly and what they have done is broken down the stereotype of older workers and now…
ALAN JONES:
But see the best example is your own parents and you have told me this story a million times; this notion that government can go on spending this money they haven't got, spending borrowed money occurred in the Whitlam years and as a result, you have to buy the money on the international market at the highest price, interest rates went through the roof and your parents went under like many then. Now, do we understand that that death trap is awaiting us unless we change direction?
TREASURER:
Well, this is what we have got to try and get across, Alan. Look, I think Australians know we need to fix the Budget, I think there are aspects of the Budget they don't like.
ALAN JONES:
Well, the polls tell us they want Bill Shorten, the polls tell us they want Bill Shorten back. I mean this is the mob…
TREASURER:
I don't take those polls seriously because ultimately, Australians don't really know Bill Shorten yet, when they get to know him, they won't be voting for him, I'm pretty sure. Having said that, what really annoys me is that we have a mandate to fix the Budget, we have a mandate to repeal the Mining Tax with all of its associated expenditure, we have a mandate to start building an economy that creates more jobs and greater prosperity and at the moment, we are dealing with you know, a group of people in the opposition – and Bill Shorten is just as responsible for this as Christine Milne or Clive Palmer is, they have got to understand that their actions are going to have a negative impact on the economy, not just the Budget (inaudible).
ALAN JONES:
But this is where, if I can be a bit critical, I mean we have to be specific about this, here is a Mining Tax that has raised no money and yet the previous Government was providing benefits based on the revenue from the Mining Tax…
TREASURER:
Exactly, $17 billion!
ALAN JONES:
Seventeen billion dollars over four years and you have got the Labor Party and the Palmer Party saying, 'well hang on we are not going to approve the repeal of the Mining Tax, if you take back the benefits', that the previous Government gave out of revenue from the Mining Tax that doesn't exist. Wholly nelly, if that is the thinking, then we are in a whole heap of trouble.
TREASURER:
Exactly right, Alan. This is the problem, they are spending money that they don't have the capacity to repay and they can't afford and ultimately, it is going to cost Australian jobs and that's why, I am absolutely determined to get our Budget through and absolutely determined to get the economy back on track. I mean, look you know there was jobs…
ALAN JONES:
Just come back to the Mining Tax, so our listeners understand, just come back to the Mining Tax. The previous vandals said, we are going to raise all this money – Swan and Co – and therefore we are going to shell it out to you. We are going to get $17 billion over four years from Mining Tax revenue. There is no revenue from the Mining Tax but the Shorten-Labor Opposition and minority parties are saying, 'we won't allow you to repeal the Mining Tax unless you continue with the payments that the previous Government shelled out', with money they don't have'. That is vandalism of the worst kind.
TREASURER:
Exactly right and we had the courage to identify things like the Schoolkids Bonus before the election and said, 'look we can't afford to keep paying these things,' and that took great political courage from Tony Abbott and we did that. He was upfront with the Australian people, for two elections and in doing so, we have been rewarded with an Opposition that is just determined to create mayhem and wreck the Budget (inaudible).
ALAN JONES:
Now, the Medicare co-payment that was introduced by Brian Howe and Bob Hawke in the early 1990s, exactly the equivalent wasn't it? Now, here we have got a dishonest public protest about a Medicare co-payment – this is heartless and cruel. Yet everyone who goes to anaesthetist or an orthopaedic surgeon or god knows what, the co-payment is massive is it not? So this is $7, is it not. Now, if you can't get the public to embrace a $7 co-payment, how the hell do you win this economic argument?
TREASURER:
Because you end up with a system that is not sustainable in the long term. I mean, if we do not make a contribution now to our healthcare system, it is not going to deliver us the quality of healthcare in the future that we expect and I said this very bluntly (inaudible)…
ALAN JONES:
But then the Graham Richardson argument is when we have that TV show, Richo says, alright there's Joe and Tony asking people to tighten their belts and have a co-payment here and yet we have this very expensive Paid Parental Leave Scheme. Now, how does it add up when you say, on the one hand, we are trying to save money and cut back and on the other hand, we have a Paid Parental Leave Scheme to people on $150,000 who will get $75,000 a year maximum in paid parental leave. Now, might it be time to say, we have heard on Paid Parental Leave, that is stopping us from winning this whole economic argument, therefore defer it?
TREASURER:
Well, the Paid Parental Leave argument is not credible Alan because it is fully paid for by a levy of 1.5 per cent on the largest companies in Australia. So, if Labor's argument is that somehow there is going to be massive savings associated with abolishing the Paid Parental Leave Scheme, they are simply saying that they are going to jack up company tax and the net result is an increase in company tax without any benefit.
ALAN JONES:
Joe, you know what corporate Australia is like. They are working hand over fist to make sure that their finances are structured in such a way that they won't be liable for the 1.5 per cent.
TREASURER:
They will pay it Alan, they will pay the 1.5 per cent to pay for the Paid Parental Leave Scheme, there is no doubt about that because at the end of the day, they are the also the beneficiaries of it and the beneficiaries of more women going into work. But, I just say this about the Paid Parental Leave Scheme Alan, as you said, I grew up in a small business, my parents kept losing their receptionist, young woman to the public service and kept losing them to big business because my parents, like every other small business out there is unable to pay paid parental leave right? So now, for the first time, with our scheme, small businesses out there will be on the exactly the same level as big business and it will be big business that pays the bills. It is the biggest benefit for small business in my nearly two decades in politics because for the first time, they are going to get equal pay. And the second thing is, and I have said it to my mum as well, you know one of the challenges has been in the past that you know, mums are always going to be the very best – usually the very best carers for a child right? And we all wish they could spend more time at home but if you are going to live in a capital city these days, you can't do it on a one salary; you need to have two salaries. And therefore, our scheme ensures that when people have children, the mortgage bill, which still keeps coming in, is going to be paid for, in full without a lesser quality of life during that period of parental leave.
ALAN JONES:
Okay, good to talk to you and thank you for taking this meeting ahead of the meeting with the Trade Minister and the Finance Minister and all those other people and give my very best regards to our very New Zealand colleagues but tell them we are going to win, NSW will win the Super Final.
TREASURER:
Well and more than that, I am polishing up the Bledisloe because I know it is coming up.
ALAN JONES:
Good on you Joe, good to talk to you. There he is, the Treasurer, Joe Hockey from Wellington in New Zealand.