REBECCA LEVINGSTON:
Joe Hockey is the Treasurer of Australia; Treasurer, good afternoon.
TREASURER:
Good afternoon.
REBECCA LEVINGSTON:
Whose idea was this?
TREASURER:
Well, it is something I have always wanted to do. So long as I have been in Parliament I have argued that Australian taxpayers should know where their money is going. And so, when I was appointed the Treasurer, we started to implement it.
REBECCA LEVINGSTON:
Who gets this breakdown?
TREASURER:
Everyone that lodges a tax return.
REBECCA LEVINGSTON:
So that is individuals and businesses as well?
TREASURER:
No, just individuals I understand.
REBECCA LEVINGSTON:
Okay and just explain what people will see because this is like an additional piece of paper when they get their tax return back.
TREASURER:
Well, they do get a breakdown of your total tax assessed and it is basically a breakdown on a proportional basis of where taxation goes in Australia. So, if you have tax assessed at $20,000 then it will indicate that you have paid $7,356 in welfare and of that, $3,028 will go for aged pensions, $1,434 for disability pension and then you go to health, which is three – just over three and a half thousand dollars, defence $1642 and so on. So, it tells you where you taxpayer dollars are going.
REBECCA LEVINGSTON:
So, yes, the biggest bar by far is for welfare. Do you think that may also prompt a response from the public to say we spend too much on welfare?
TREASURER:
Well, I think people have a right to know where their money is going. Now, the total budget in Australia, around – more than a third is actually going on welfare. And I mean, a lot of people are not familiar with where their taxpayer dollars go. For example, a lot of people would think properly that defence is the biggest area of expenditure, whereas clearly it isn't.
REBECCA LEVINGSTON:
Defence and education, there is about equal spending on those two areas…
TREASURER:
Yeah, that's right…
REBECCA LEVINGSTON:
Are you happy with that?
TREASURER:
Well, you know, of course, the state governments have education and we collect the GST for the states and the states are the primary funders of public education. And in relation to private school education, it's parents and the Federal Government that make the biggest contribution. So, it varies but overall, we have got to defend the nation. And look, given that 9.7 million tax receipts are issued this year, 5.5 million have already gone out to people and more people will be made aware of exactly where their taxpayer dollars are going.
REBECCA LEVINGSTON:
Yes so, if you are listening this afternoon and you have received your thank you letter and your personal tax break down from the Federal Government, give me a call and tell me if you give the idea the thumbs up or the thumbs down, this afternoon.
TREASURER:
I think it is also important Rebecca that we do thank taxpayers for paying tax. It is something I've always believed – that people work hard, and you know, people can work up to half the year entirely for the Australian Government; you know, effectively 50 per cent of their income each year can end up going in taxes. So, they spend the first half of the year working for the government – for the nation, and I think it is a good thing we thank people for that.
REBECCA LEVINGSTON:
And they will be bumping up that contribution a little more as of November 10 with the increase in fuel excise, as well. You may have to adjust the graph a little for next year, Treasurer.
TREASURER:
Well, yeah 40 cents a week for the average family is a good contribution if it delivers things, and what we are delivering is better roads.
REBECCA LEVINGSTON:
Well, I am sure the Australian public will let you know whether they think it is a good contribution or not. Treasurer, how much is it costing to send out these letters?
TREASURER:
Well, it's all included in the Australian Taxation Office budget so we haven't given them any additional money for this. They said they were able to rearrange expenditure in their area to actually pay for it.
REBECCA LEVINGSTON:
It is significant though because yeah, almost 10 million individual taxpayers will receive this. It is color printing – the colored bar graph; presumably it is not costing the accountants of Australia anything at all?
TREASURER:
Well, it shouldn't be, no, because it is a letter from the ATO and certainly it is based on the information people provide to the Tax Office. I don't see any of the information. Naturally enough, it is confidential to the Tax Office, as is the response from the Tax Office to someone that pays tax. But if you are paying $20,000 in tax a year, or $15,000 or $500,000, I don't think it is a big burden for the Tax Office to spend less than a dollar to say thank you and here is where your money is going.
REBECCA LEVINGSTON:
You have also included the level of Australian Government gross debt, what is that for this year?
TREASURER:
Sorry, what is that for this year?
REBECCA LEVINGSTON:
Yeah.
TREASURER:
Well, on the document that I have got before me, it says $320 billion. It will vary according to the needs. For example, you know, we have just had a bill from the ACT Government for an extra billion dollars to be lent on the basis that they can deal with some asbestos problems in the ACT. So, it varies according to the timing of when the tax receipt goes out.
REBECCA LEVINGSTON:
My guest is Joe Hockey, the Treasurer of Australia. You have also noted the interest payments on the gross debt this year which is $13.2 billion; do you think some people might perceive this as a way of supporting your Government's policies, whether it's you know, spending on welfare to match up with the end of the age of entitlement or arguments about the economy and debt and that kind of thing? Do you think that some people might see this as, propaganda is too stronger a word, but kind of a soft message from the Government, as well?
TREASURER:
Well, Rebecca I would have thought that you and any other journalist would be keen to have information made available. I think taxpayers are keen for information to be made available. These are the facts. This is exactly where the money is going and if we are forcing people to give up their income to us, we are forcing them by law to pay us money, I think they should know where the money is going, how it is being spent and if we are building up a debt, that they have to repay, I mean there is no magic money tree here in Canberra, effectively all of us have to pay back the debt, it is like your credit card bill, you know, I expect my bank to send me a credit card bill to tell me how much I owe the bank from time to time, well, that is exactly the same with this tax receipt, people ought to know how much they are going to have to pay over time because there is no magic pudding.
REBECCA LEVINGSTON:
Treasurer, have you got your tax return yet?
TREASURER:
No I haven't actually, I haven't received mine but I am looking forward to it. I am testing the procedures actually to see whether you know, whether my accountant somehow intercepts it and I don't see it or not. So, we will wait and see.
REBECCA LEVINGSTON:
Treasurer, I am disappointed to hear there is no magic money tree in Canberra but I am…
TREASURER:
Yeah, so am I. I keep watering every plant I see around the building but there is no money coming off them.
REBECCA LEVINGSTON:
But I am grateful for your time this afternoon, Treasurer thanks so much.
TREASURER:
Anytime. And thank you to Brisbane as well for hosting the G20; it will be a fantastic event for Australia and hopefully for the world economy.
REBECCA LEVINGSTON:
We'll see you in a couple of weeks.
TREASURER:
Okay then, thanks Rebecca.