BEN SWAN:
I'm really, really grateful that you guys could come today. I think it's a credit to you. We were wondering about the drought and how bad things could get. We were talking the other day, just imagine if the Treasurer or the Prime Minister walked in the door. What would you like or what would you need to get us through this terrible, terrible time? And within 10 days, here they are. So, I think it's a credit to you blokes that you're here, and we really, really appreciate it that you've come to see our little show and just to see how bad things are.
So, welcome fellas and thank you very much on behalf of the Dight family and the Swan family for turning up today. Thanks so much.
BARNABY JOYCE:
Well, thank you very much, Ben. Ben and I used to run around the football paddock together some time ago.
Look, it's really important that people understand that the Swan family and the Dight family are good operators, good operators, and we've got to keep good operators going because they're the ones - when they get going, everybody else will get sucked along with them and fired up and the district will be back on its feet. These people, what they're doing is they're keeping back their heifers. They're hoping and praying for rain. If they get rain, they're back into it. They'll put a bull across them, they'll knock out a calf, get themselves some cash flow going.
It's great to have people such as Ben here to give a clear view of the sort of things that they would do if they were running the show. The Dight family up there in the irrigation area as well, to give a clear view as to the truth about what is happening in that space and how we've got to make sure that they stay on the ground. It's great to have the Treasurer and the Drought Minister here, the Water Minister here, Josh Frydenberg and David Littleproud. And I know you're going to be vastly more interested in what they say then what I say, so I'll start with David.
DAVID LITTLEPROUD:
Well thanks, BJ. And to the Swans and Dights, thank you for having us. As they quite clearly articulated, we are in uncharted territories within this drought. And so, today, we're trying to equip them with localised climate guides. The Federal Government made a commitment of $2.6 million to work with the Bureau of Meteorology and the CSIRO and FarmLink to make sure that we get more granular information to equip them to make the decisions they need to make with the science and technology of the 21st century.
So this is comparing climate data from the last 30 years to the 30 years before that so they can see trends, whether it be rainfall, whether it be frost, whether it be temperature, at a local level - not at a state level - but at a local level. And this hasn't just been done from Canberra. We've actually made the Bureau and CSIRO sit down with farmers at the local level and tell them what they want, what they need from the Bureau. So, the first 20 have been rolled out today and the other 36 will be rolled out before the end of the month.
So, this is about equipping them. This is one of the suite of measures that we're going to have to continue to roll out. But this is about the future. We're looking in the here and now, over 2 billion in the here and now, over 5 billion in the future, but this is another piece of the puzzle that will continue to work with farmers with practical solutions. And as we are on this listening tour, as we announced 100 million last week, we aren't going to stop. The Prime Minister made it clear on Friday that we're going to continue to be agile and we ask the states to come with us. And I've written to all of the state premiers to ask them to consider paying councils the rates of local government for small business and for farmers to pay their rates, to give them a reprieve. And in fact, they could look at payroll tax as well because those businesses in town, as we heard yesterday, are also hurting.
So this has to be a targeted approach in a cooperative way with the states. And I just ask the states to think deeply about this and to act quickly. This is about us acting together to look after one another and that is what we have to do to get through this drought. But there is a future. As we heard from these brave families here before, when it does rain, we're going to get back up on our feet but we just need a bit of a help to get there. So, to them, thank you for what you do and what you are putting into your community. We lose our communities when we don't have you but we need to make sure that we look after one another until we get this rain. Josh.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, thanks David. Thanks, Barnaby. Thanks Ben and Colin and your families for having us here. This is a crisis. And as one family member said to me just before, this is the community's GFC plus some. What we've seen with the destocking of the agricultural properties, what we've heard last night from the local mayors about people taking their own lives as they just throw their hands up at what is happening in their own communities. We hear of shops closing and we hear of communities struggling.
So, we're here, as David said, to hear firsthand the stories from this community and the impact that this drought is having. Covering some 95 per cent of New South Wales and some two-thirds of Queensland, this drought is having a devastating impact on local communities. But we're also here to talk through what more we can do to continue the support that the Morrison Government is providing these communities. Australia cares. The Government cares. What happens in these paddocks affects all of us, not just because what is in this paddock turns up on your plate but because it creates jobs and because it's important to the health of regional Australia. And regional Australia is at the heart of our country. It's made us who we are. So the rest of the country are with these families as they go through this very difficult time. So we're here to listen but also to act, as we have been doing.
QUESTION:
Treasurer, in the GFC, the Government provided stimulus packages. These farmers have asked for a cash injection. What's the Government going to do? Is that something that you're going to consider?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, as you know, we have a series of initiatives underway. We have Household Farm Assistance, which is up to $12,000. We also have been giving support to local government areas and the Prime Minister announced an extension of that. We have concessional loans that are available, and David can talk to a little bit about. But that is also making a difference. And we've also been providing money to not-for-profit organisations, and we heard yesterday from the Inverell Chamber of Commerce how money is being provided to farmers in the form of vouchers that can be spent in the local community to help sustain jobs.
So we'll continue to look at what more we can do. But from the Prime Minister down, we're absolutely focused on ensuring the sustainability of these communities, because the drought will break. Just a question of when. The drought will break. So 'till that time, the people of Australia need to stand with these communities to ensure that they can get through it because their, you know, backs are up against the wall here. And to hear firsthand about how devastating it is for these families who have been on the land, some of these families for eight generations, 180 years. So this is that bad.
QUESTION:
So just to be clear, you'll look at further cash injections?
DAVID LITTLEPROUD:
The Farm Household Allowance is $36,000.
QUESTION:
Yeah. On top of what's there already because these guys have said they're going to need some more to get through.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Look, we're going to continue to look at what options we have but the Prime Minister just announced an $100 million last Friday. Again, hearing it, seeing it firsthand here today and yesterday - and we're off to Warwick and Stanthorpe later today in Queensland - you can get a sense of how devastating it is for these communities.
QUESTION:
You said yesterday that one of the problems of [indistinct] out the door is that people aren't taking up the concessional loans at the rates that you might have hoped or expected or that are available. Why do you think they're not taking [indistinct]?
DAVID LITTLEPROUD:
No, I didn't say that because of that. I said that it was up to them. That's a decision that each farmer will make on their own personal circumstances, with the advice of their financial advisor. What we're trying to do is to provide options for them and provide competitive tension in the marketplace. And we just heard before what those concessional loans have done in driving down interest rates from some of the commercial banks. But we are trying to get as much of that out as we can and make it as attractive as we can. And we'll continue to work with the Regional Investment Corporation to improve that product. But we're also looking to expand that product. There will be restocking and replanning loans that will be interest-free. We'll be rolling those out within the next 30 days. That product's being created as we speak. And we're also looking at agri-starter loans to think about the next generation. And I'd charge the banks with the responsibility of working with the Regional Investment Corporation to partner with us - to use our capital and their capital to get farmers through, and also to look for the next generation. And we have a financial taskforce that the Treasurer and I set up, that we work with the banks. And they have been very proactive in working with us to make sure that we give those options.
So, we need to make sure that whatever we put out is fit for the market, fit for the future, and we're getting some more feedback here. Isn't it a great thing - we live in a country where Cabinet Ministers come to a small country town and can get feedback from the people that we're there to serve and listen to them. And we will take that feedback. And I'll take that back to the CEO Bruce King to make sure that the products that we do create for the Regional Investment Corporation are fit-for-purpose. And we're not saying we get it right every time, but there's been a lot of benefit that's come out of the Regional Investment Corporation. And I say on all these other programs that we've put in place, like FHA, Farm Household Assistance: please do not self-assess. It is important you do not self-assess. We have put more rural financial councillors on the ground since this drought started. They are the angels of this drought. It shouldn't think that it's too onerous. Those people are there to help you - to help you work through the paperwork.
We do need to have paperwork. Sadly, we've had someone in Western Queensland defraud the Federal and State Government for drought funding, about six months ago, but we've got to make sure we do it in a sensible way that the paperwork isn't too much. But there are people there to help you so please do not make the mistake of self-assessment.
QUESTION:
On the issue of the regional financial councillors, I don't know if you were here, but in Inverell the councillor for a time actually had to take stress leave. The pressure of the job was too much. And to get an appointment at the moment it can take up to six to eight weeks just for one meeting. Has that program got enough funding behind it if that's what the farmers are having to deal with?
DAVID LITTLEPROUD:
Yeah, well we took them from 116 staff to putting on another 49. We continue to work with the rural financial counselling service in each region, and we ask them to provide us with the feedback. And as they need resources they are being provided. And in fact, when I was agriculture minister and had responsibility for them, I actually took the step to ring a couple of those councillors myself personally just to see: are you okay? These people are bearing the weight of not just one property but a number of properties. And that's why I say they are the angels of these droughts. And we've got to wrap our arms around them too, not just in terms of resources but making sure they're okay. And we put $30 million out for mental health. We've got to look after one another. We're putting money out there to make sure, and if it's not being targeted right we've got to step back and say, how do we do it? We'll be putting more rural financial councillors, and in fact, some of that money that was announced - of the $100 million on Friday - goes towards the rural financial counselling service; $80,000 of that went into Western Queensland, my own electorate, to make sure there's more resources.
So, as the rural financial councillor services need more, we will stand there. We are not going to take a backwards step on that because these people are making a real difference.
BARNABY JOYCE:
Can I just add something to that. Look, you get on the road - you don't come on the road with the answers, otherwise there's no point in going on the road, because apparently you know it all. You come on the road to hear the questions and then you go away and work out your answers. I mean, that's the whole point, we've got the Treasurer of the Commonwealth of Australia and the Drought Minister for the Commonwealth Australia here, is to hear the issues and then they go away and talk to the Prime Minister and go to Cabinet and go to the Expenditure Review Committee to try and come up with the answers. So, you know, if we had it all sorted then we'd all jump on the bus and be doing something else.
QUESTION:
Treasurer, the comparison was made here between the drought and the auto industry in Australia and tough times and the support from Government. Do you think that's a good comparison and do you think more targeted assistance can be done? Some of these farmers are competing against farmers from countries where there is real, ongoing subsidies from national government.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, we did hear some comments last night when we met at the pub with local government leaders but also local community leaders about how the agricultural industry in Australia has been lean and mean, in the sense that, you know, it has competed on the world stage very effectively without some of the subsidies that other countries have had. Now, I believe that will continue to be the case, but that's very different from what we're seeing out here. This is an act of god. This is human - this is human nature in the sense that these people have to survive out here and they need the Government and the people of Australia to back them in during the toughest of times. You know, families that have been on the land for more than a century are saying this is the worst drought anyone can ever remember, going back all that time.
So we are in uncharted territory, in the sense of how devastating this drought has been, and that's why the Government will continue to provide that targeted and necessary support to those in need.
QUESTION:
But if we are in uncharted territory, doesn't that mean we should have [inaudible] response. And the measures announced, so far while being maintained and the funds are being topped up as needed, it's clear from not just this tour but the dozens of tours that your Government has [indistinct] in the last few years that there is more needed and more stimulus needed. Can you actually say that there could be more money [indistinct]?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, look, there is a combination of measures because there's no silver bullet to solving this drought other than, you know, getting that long-awaited for rain. But what we are doing and what David is leading on is providing the immediate support through income support, support for small businesses, local government areas, for regional financial counselling, for mental health support; but also the long term infrastructure that will help these communities become more drought resilient in the future. And what we're saying, as Barnaby I think very well said it there, we don't have all the answers just now, otherwise you wouldn't be here. What we do want to do is continue to provide that support as necessary and as needed. And hearing from these families and talking to the small businesses last night and seeing the personal messages that the women of the Country Women's Association had written anonymously about the personal impacts that this drought was having on them. It has been obviously very, very powerful and a reminded of why every Australian, regardless of where they live, every single Australian has a stake in these communities surviving this drought and then prospering in the future.
QUESTION:
In terms of the communities surviving the drought, and you and Barnaby have mentioned the purpose is to hear the questions, do you see as a significant issue some of the feedback we've been hearing about opportunity costing local towns? So if the economy shrinks and workforce in a certain business is reduced the phrase is 'they'll never come back'. Is that something that's weighing on your mind throughout this tour?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Oh absolutely. Absolutely. And that's why businesses should be encouraged and certainly are being encouraged to keep on their staff where they can, despite the difficult times because those staff want to live and continue to live in these communities but they need a job. So you can't blame the staff if they lose their job that they may have to move to find a new one. But what we want to see is these resilient people in these communities get the support that they need and deserve, as they have been getting support but, you know, continue to get that support going forward because when this drought breaks, you know, we want to ensure that it can get back to normal as soon as possible even though it will take some time.
BARNABY JOYCE:
A couple more questions guys because I think everyone's stopped listening.
QUESTION:
Barnaby's obviously been pushing to have more droughts built in his electorate and …
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Dams..
QUESTION:
Oh, I'm sorry, dams.
BARNABY JOYCE:
Not more droughts. And he wants Federal Government funding for that.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Yeah.
QUESTION:
Have you had any discussions with him or would you …
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
I have. I mean and you know, we've also don't forget, on our watch, extended the Chaffey Dam which has helped provide water to the people of Tamworth which is a large - a large town and a large regional city and we will continue to invest heavily in water infrastructure. We have more than three billion dollars available and a variety of water infrastructure projects now that's for weirs like Rookwood Weir. It's for other irrigation methods, it's for pipelines and it's for dams. And there are a number of dams which we are working with state governments to help build. Bearing in mind, that state governments have a responsibility here too. And we don't want to see state governments dragging their feet; we're helping to fund them but we need state governments help to build them.
QUESTION:
Can I please a question to Mr Littleproud on the dams please? Would the Government ever aim to relinquish control of building dams from the states and take it over?
DAVID LITTLEPROUD:
Well that's a constitutional question and one that can only be solved by a referendum on [indistinct] of the Australian people. I think that would be a lengthy process. What people want now is not anymore talk; they want action. You know what? Shouldn't we have a mature conversation with state in terms of federation? I'm just getting on with the job. We've put $2.3 billion out there. Since 2003, 20 dams have been built in this country; 16 of those have been in Tasmania.
The frightening thing is that the states have had responsibility of this since federation; it is illegal for a Federal Government to lift a shovel and dig a whole anywhere in this country unless the states allow us. But what's going to happen is - it's not just - it's not just about agriculture; it's about an urban amenity. There will be a 37 per cent reduction in storage per person, per mega litre, in our urban supply which puts our whole being in terms of urban amenity [indistinct] being able to turn a tap on at risk.
All we've said is we've led. In fact, Barnaby Joyce was the one that put in place the National Water Infrastructure Fund to say: come and get it; come and take the money; you build them, we will help pay for it. We're still there and we hope - and I think that we'll see very soon - that New South Wales is finally going to take the lead on this and I congratulate them for this.
But we've got in Queensland a perverse situation where they're on the go slow. In fact, they're going to now take back Rookwood Weir; they're now going to reduce the size of it because the cost of concrete has got too high. Well their priorities are all wrong because the cost of concrete in Brisbane's about the same in Rocky but they're not going to reduce the size of the Cross River Rail. Jackie Trad is not interested in doing that; she won't amend Cross River Rail, but she'll let the people of Rockhampton go without secure water supply. You've got to get your priorities right. If you don't have water, there's no point of having a Cross River Rail because you can't turn the tap on; you can't live.
BARNABY JOYCE:
Can I just add one thing to that. Because I think it's really important - I'm sorry for playing this sort of shuttle diplomacy at the furry rabbit, but here we go. Josh, how much did we pay the state government for Snowy Hydro? How much did we pay them?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Billions.
BARNABY JOYCE:
Four point one six; four thousand one hundred and sixty million dollars that we paid for water infrastructure; we paid that to the states. Now I think it's fair enough to say that regional water infrastructure should be replaced in a substantial way by regional water infrastructure. They've got the money; it's sitting in their bank account. Now, I'm saying to the Treasurer of New South Wales: yeah, it's great to have your credit rating because you've got so much of the Commonwealth money sitting in there. But how about you start spending some of the Commonwealth money into alternative assets such as dams? And I'm- look, I'm going to have to put the wood on my state colleagues; they're good fellas and good ladies. But for goodness sake, start looking at your regulations that are holding this up; start looking at legislations. The Minister can get with the regulations with the stroke of a pen. This is a crisis. The Minister can deal with that with the stroke of a pen. The legislation, put it up to the Parliament. If the Labor Party wants to block legislation for us building dams, good luck at the next election, and bureaucrats- if there's bureaucrats in there who're just not inclined, well, find them another department to work in. And that would be the way to go. Find another department in another place. They're probably jolly smart people, and they can work somewhere else. But they've not only got the money David, they've got over four billion dollars which we paid them for Snowy Hydro. I mean, get moving.
QUESTION:
One more on Moyne Shire Council - just the fact that the council seemed to reject the $1 million in drought funding. Your response to that?
DAVID LITTLEPROUD:
Well look, the data on that community drought program is predicated on two criteria. One is that you must have more than 17 per cent of your workforce in agriculture, and the second is on weather. That weather data is cut by the bureau every quarter. We made a decision predicated off the June data that had Moyne Shire in drought. After 30 June, they had a weather event, a significant weather event that now sees them not in drought. They made a decision to say that that weather event means that they are in a better position. So we thank them for saying they no longer need that million dollars, but let me tell you, there is 122 other shires around this country that are screaming from the rooftops of the benefits of it, but they want another round of it, because it is a stimulus that is driving local economies, because the councils are going out there and procuring local tradies and local materials to bring projects that have community benefit. Whether it be the showgrounds doing up the showgrounds, or whether it's the local cricket club grandstand - that has a stimulus within the economy at a local level, it keeps towns moving. So, definitely. We thank them for that, but we're not going to take our foot off the accelerator in terms of it's a very successful program, in fact the other 122 shires are screaming from the rooftop and I suggest there'd be others that'd like to be on it as well.
Thank you.