ALAN JONES:
Treasurer, good morning.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Nice to be with you, Alan.
ALAN JONES:
Thank you for your time. Can I just say to you that I don't think people out there in struggle street are too much worried about a surplus. They're worried about the capacity of the Government to respond to some very difficult circumstances since that commitment by the Government was made. You've got drought, you've got bushfires and now you've got the Coronavirus, which I note you and the Prime Minister said yesterday in Canberra maybe worse than the other two. So you're not getting your knickers in a knot over a surplus, are you?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, our focus has always been on delivering to the Australian community, particularly in the wake of those bushfires. The $2 billion bushfire recovery fund, Alan, was all designed about getting the money out to people, to spend it where it's needed most, and to not prioritise the surplus, that's been our focus. But I have to say to you, a country living within its means is an important objective. We have an interest bill on our national debt of $19 billion a year. That's about double what we spend on child care and nearly as much as we spend on schools.
ALAN JONES:
Sure, absolutely. I understand that, fully. Except that out there, you know, if they hear you're talking about surplus they're thinking hang on, you've got your priorities wrong here because we're still struggling. Can I just make a point to you here, and I've made this before in relation to you and the leader. You stand up in the Parliament and I have said, I think both you, and you're very sincere in what you said then. You know, you've put $2 billion out in support for these people and they are suffering. Josh, can I tell you that they haven't seen this money and there's something seriously wrong with the bureaucracy here. I mean we had a woman from the Bega Valley, she's the mayor of the Bega Valley. You know where Bega Valley is, it's right over the coastline. She had to drive to Canberra yesterday, three hours, to prevail upon the bureaucracy to lend out some of the money that you people have made available, our money. Now, it's the distribution that's the issue here.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, there are payments and allowances that are done through the states. They've been the principal deliverer of the money that the Commonwealth is helping to provide. Now, in relation to mental health support and in relation to habitat restoration for some of the wildlife that have been devastated by the bushfires, that's separate, that's done by the Commonwealth. But most of these payments are done through the States.
ALAN JONES:
I know that but forget all that. You're a father and a human being before you're the Treasurer and out there are people who- a fellow wrote to me yesterday. He said, "I'm in a park and I've got a tent over my head but there's nowhere to wash my feet, there's nowhere to clean my teeth and I can get electricity, they've given me a generator." And these are people who are lost everything. \They don't have a table, they don't have a porridge plate they own. A woman said ‑ I said, "Where did you get that dress?" She said, "I borrowed the dress." And now these people ‑ the public have given a billion, you've given $2 billion, that's a lot of dough. Why wouldn't you put Cosgrove in charge of the whole show, of the money and everything? Open a trust account, let Cosgrove and Andrew Constance administer the money or Liz (inaudible), they know these people backwards. They know where the suffering is.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, Peter Cosgrove is a fine Australian and, as you know, he's overseeing what the Business Council are doing in relation to the Bushfire Recovery Fund. We appointed Andrew Colvin, another fine Australian, a former head of the Australian Federal Police who is coordinating all the States.
ALAN JONES:
But he doesn't know the geography of the place. See, these people, Constance and these people know the geography. I mean, I don't know what Constance knows but I've been there and I can tell you there are people there that need money and they're not getting it. That's all I'm saying to you. I'm not blaming to you. I'm saying you've dished up the money, it's taxpayers' money, that's what the taxpayers wanted you to do but the distribution is dreadful and I'm sorry, bureaucrats are woeful and uncaring and unsympathetic and asking these people to fill out endless forms.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Your point is noted. I met last week with Dom Perrottet, my fellow New South Wales colleague, and he's a good man and I know he's focused on getting that money out as quickly as possible.
ALAN JONES:
Can I just ask you a quick one, I know you've got to go. There was this infrastructure report handed down yesterday, basically called projects, it was something about projects and initiatives and a whole heap of stuff there. And, you know, the strategy over the next 30 years should consider the current availability, quality, regulation and use of water within various catchments, changes in runoff levels, links to changing land uses. Wouldn't you, as Treasurer, and as an Australian, say can someone tell me where we put a shovel in the ground to build a dam so that we can harvest the water? This time last year an area as big as England in Queensland was under water but they seem ‑ these are priority projects for infrastructure. It's called ‑ I've forgotten what the title of the damn thing is, I get sick of reading this stuff, and there's not a word about dams. It does say about the end a well of various water sources and potential opportunities. Why are we frightened to say we will harvest the water?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, we must harvest the water and we must ensure that, you know, our agriculture and our communities get the support through new dams. As you know, Alan, in the last few years only 20 dams have been built and 16 of those have been in Tasmania. So the reality is that the State Governments have been standing in the way of new dam construction. I went out to the site of the Emu Swamp dam in Queensland. Now that is where there should be building already under way. The agricultural producers, the Federal Government has money at the ready yet the state Queensland Government has been dragging its feet.
ALAN JONES:
Yeah, but see, Josh, look, this thing says ‑ I mean if I was advising you I would call these people in and say take it away, put it in the bin and come back with something that makes sense. It says here “sea inundation can damage residential and commercial property. This strategy will consider which areas should be protected for continued use. The average sea level rise is projected to be down the track.” Now I've spoken to oyster farmers in relation to the Batemans Bay fire crisis and John and Jim, twin brothers run Batemans Bay Oysters. Their traps have been set at the same level for 50 years and oysters can only be caught at a certain sea level. If the seas were rising, they'd be out of business and they said, "this is rubbish." And yet you've got ‑ so it hasn't happened in the past, the sea levels haven't risen in the last 20 years, which they want, but now they're saying but they may in the future, and they may be between 0.4 and 0.6 metres. Where does this crap come from?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, obviously this is what the water grid will be doing and the people who are employed from the Commonwealth but also from the State level to get on with building these dams.
ALAN JONES:
We hope so. Now, look, before you go, I put up on my Facebook page some comments that I made in relation to the ACCC, not the Treasurer, approving the sale of all these milk brands to China. The material I put on Facebook's been seen by more than 150,000 people. There are over 1,200 scarifying comments out there in listener land, in struggle street and in the pubs. They're angry. Now you have yet to consider all of this, I know. When do you think you will be able to make a decision?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Look, I don't want to put an exact timeframe on it because obviously these things need to be carefully considered, but Alan, we've also got to put some of the facts on the table. You're right that ACCC has provided their approval, and it's now going through the Foreign Investment Review Board process. The chair of the FIRB is a man called David Irvine. He's a former Australian ambassador to China but he's also been the head of ASIS and ASIO. No one knows more about national security than him. We have a strict national interest test…
ALAN JONES:
What would he know about dairy farmers? Nothing.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
He knows what's in Australia's national interest, he knows about national security and I do point out to your listeners that this business is currently foreign owned, it's owned by a Japanese company.
ALAN JONES:
We know that, we know that. We've told our listeners that. But, however, the same Foreign Investment Review Board in October 2015 approved the lease of the land bridge Darwin port for $506 million. A Van Diemen's Land company, which is Australia's oldest and largest dairy farming outfit, 25 dairy farms, 19,000 hectares, 29,000 dairy cattle, off to the Chinese buyer. So they send two Qantas plane loads of fresh milk to China every day. It's going from their paddock to their plate. It should be going from our paddock to their plate so that we get the value added.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
But look what the chairman of the NSW Farmers Dairy Committee said…
ALAN JONES:
I don't care what they say. I'm worried about what the public say.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Hang on, Alan…
ALAN JONES:
I talk to dairy ‑ Josh, I talk to dairy farmers and these people do not represent the view of the dairy farmer. I'll take you to the Southern Highlands and I will let you meet ten dairy farmers.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Let's go. Let’s go.
ALAN JONES:
Okay.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Let's go and do that because…
ALAN JONES:
You're always too busy listening to the bureaucrats, Josh.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
I'm just quoting you the NSW Farmers Dairy Committee chairman and I can quote you the Queensland Dairy Farmers President. They're no bureaucrats, Alan. I mean, the reality is China is the fifth largest foreign investor in Australia. They're behind the US, they're behind Japan, the United Kingdom and even the Netherlands. In the most recent data, around foreign ownership in the agricultural sector, it said it was around 13 per cent. The UK had more agriculture than China…
ALAN JONES:
The current foreign ownership of Australia's dairy processing is 77 per cent. The current foreign ownership of the processing. Now, just as one last question because you've got to go but I will ask you this, common sense question. Now, value added is everything. How do we take the minerals out of the ground and we process them in the way that there's a value there and we'll get the betterment of it. Now there's this massive middle class emerging in China and they have an urgent need for agricultural produce of ours. Wouldn't it be in the national interest for us to own the produce and then we actually get value added and send it to the buyer, China, and we actually add to our national economic wellbeing. Instead, China own the milk and they then go to the middle class and they jack up the price by 300 per cent and all our product is making them a stack of money, not us.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right that we should be looking to value add in every aspect of the supply chain. That's what markets do. Markets will lead investors to the areas where there are good returns. But you have to factor in a lot of issues into that, like the cost of labour and economies of scale and other issues which go to business decisions. So it's not an easy question to answer because every circumstance and every sector is going to be different.
ALAN JONES:
Okay, well look, I've got to tell you, out there in voter land…
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
In punter land.
ALAN JONES:
Punter land, you've got to understand, Josh, people are just getting sick of all of this. They just think every time this mob put their hand up we've got a Government which says "yes, please, what would you like? What can we give to you now? Okay, away you go, away you go."
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Alan, you should also know I have blocked various foreign investment proposals that I've not considered to be in the national interest. Some of them you know about, some of them you don't know about. The reality is…
ALAN JONES:
Hey, I've got a list here which is 15 pages long of stuff. I monitor this, Josh, I monitor it and there's a stack of it. Absolute stack of stuff that's just been sold off. And at the end of the day does it matter who runs the country if we don't own it?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
It matters who runs the country and it also matters that we have foreign investment and free trade because one in five Australian jobs are related to trade and one in three Australian companies…
ALAN JONES:
No one is denying that. Hey, I own racehorses, Josh, I own stallions and we're happy for foreign investment in the ownership but not the majority.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
You bring them from in Arabia?
ALAN JONES:
No, but not majority investment, not majority control. That's my ‑ not majority. I don't mind them having 30 per cent, 45 per cent, 47 per cent, but not majority control. You've got to go. Thank you for your time.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Always good to be with you.
ALAN JONES:
Thank you. Josh Frydenberg, the Treasurer.