DARREN JAMES:
Josh, good morning to you, and I think we just all need to get vaccinated and get back to some sort of normality, and that’s the message I believe you’re getting across.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Absolutely, Darren. Good to be with you and Nick and the team. Well, vaccination is our pathway out of this crisis and it’s really pleasing to see so many Victorians, so many Australians, who are now getting the jab. And we’ve got that 70 and 80 per cent vaccination target that was agreed at National Cabinet now in sight, and it gives people hope that we can start to reopen our economy, that our kids can get back to school, that we can start attending the funerals and the weddings of loved ones and indeed travel more freely across our country. That’s what we all want. And the rest of the world is now living with COVID. It doesn’t mean you eliminate it. It doesn’t mean you avoid cases or even, tragically, deaths, but it means that you are able to safely live with the disease.
DARREN JAMES:
And why did you find the need, Mr Frydenberg, to actually remind the state premiers that they’ve agreed to this. What has caused the warning?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, there’s definitely different views being expressed by the various premiers and chief ministers across the country and, from my perspective, as the Treasurer, it’s really important that we provide business with the confidence that they can reopen safely. More than 40 per cent of businesses across the country don’t have more than three months of cashflow left to sustain themselves. And when you open up a small business, you go into that venture to build something that’s bigger than yourselves, to contribute to the community, not to just receive a weekly or monthly cheque from the Government. I’m speaking to a lot of small business owners across the country who are increasingly desperate and despondent, and they need to know that there is light at the end of the tunnel. Equally, I’m speaking to a lot of parents who are really worried about their kids’ mental health and they want them back in the classroom where they can get their education.
DARREN JAMES:
Yeah, I understand that, and I get all that, but I mean, probably the most outspoken obviously, is Mark McGowan from Western Australia, but you can sort of understand, can’t you? At the moment they’ve got no COVID there. In New South Wales they’ve got 1,000 –
NICK McCALLUM:
They got the truck drivers.
DARREN JAMES:
When they have – well, that’s, basically, it. When they open up in New South Wales, when they open up all around the world – all around Australia, there is no doubt that some of that COVID, if we’re still at 1,000 a day in New South Wales, will leak to Western Australia. That’s what he’s concerned about. Can you understand that concern that he’s saying, “Well, wait a little bit further until we get those numbers down”?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, the first thing to say is not everyone is doing well in Western Australia. We recently announced a joint package of support with the State Government for tourism businesses who have been impacted by the closed borders. There are families who are not united in Western Australia because the state borders have been closed. So, it’s not universal across the state, or any of the states, that they should remain with closed borders, but my point is a bigger one, Nick and Darren, which is that we have to look to the future; that it’s not sustainable to keep borders closed or indeed to pursue lockdowns. If you look at some of the numbers, particularly in Victoria, about the mental health impact that lockdowns are having – I’m not sure if you saw the reporting over the weekend that in Victoria more than 340 teenagers a week are being admitted to hospital, suffering mental health emergencies, and those most serious cases where they require either resuscitation or emergency treatment is 162 per cent up on 2019 and 83 per cent up on last year. Now, that is ringing a very loud alarm bell across the state as to the impact of the lockdowns. And the health imperative, of course, of preventing COVID is important, but we have got to think about the other health imperative here, which is the wellbeing of our citizens and the need to give them hope.
NICK REECE:
Josh, it’s Nick Reece here. I think we all agree that the way out of this for Australia is to get vaccinated and to get vaccinated as quickly as possible. In terms of measures which the Commonwealth could put in place to help that along as quickly as possible, sticks and carrots, are there any that you’re open to? For example, what about if domestic flights could be made open again to people who have been vaccinated twice or, you know, there’s some Commonwealth welfare programs which are only available to kids – I’m thinking about childcare payments to parents who get their kids vaccinated, get the jab? Would you consider those sorts of incentives to get that curve up as quick as possible?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, Nick, I think that businesses will be the ones who will offer incentives in the sense that they control who comes on to their premises, and if you look around the world, there are countries where you can only go into a restaurant or you can only go to a sporting event if you’re vaccinated. I can see that happening in our country with businesses determining who comes onto their premises. When people are getting the jab, then that is a choice that they’re making to make their families safer and themselves safer, but they’re also doing it in order to get something in return – namely, the ability to move more freely across their country or to get access to do things they may otherwise would not do. You’ve already heard the New South Wales Premier heard about incentives that they’re going to provide in terms of freedom of movement for vaccinated people. Now, we reject, obviously, what our political opponents have put forward in terms of paying people who have already had the jab, retrospectively paying them having done so. I think that’s not a good policy, because people actually went and got the jab because they did so out of an obligation to their community because they want to be safe. I don’t need to go and use $6 billion of taxpayers’ money to get them to do that, but what I do want is everybody who’s listening today to, as quickly as possible, get the vaccination because that’s fastest way out of this crisis.
NICK McCALLUM:
Would you like to see – under the current circumstances would you like to see the lockdown ended next week? Here in Victoria, I mean.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
I mean, obviously the lockdowns must end based on the medical advice, but I would hope that, you know, governments of all political persuasions across all states and territories are weighing up that medical advice conscious of –
NICK McCALLUM:
You were very outspoken last year about Victoria’s lockdown, so can I ask the question again? Would you like to see it end next week?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
I would like it to lift in Victoria as soon as possible. I would like kids to go back to school as soon as possible. I would like businesses to be reopened as soon as possible. And, as you know, this year and last year, I’ve done everything I can, Nick, to ensure Victorians get a high level of economic support. We’ve partnered with the State Government to provide around $2 billion jointly for small businesses for this most recent lockdown alone and more than 400,000 Victorians have received nearly a billion dollars from the Commonwealth and those COVID disaster payments.
NICK McCALLUM:
A very different tone – you’ve shown a very different tone this year towards the Victorian lockdowns than last year. Is that because of the New South Wales situation, and you’ve been reluctant to criticise a Coalition Government in New South Wales?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
No, I’m equally prepared to criticise Coalition or Labor governments for what I consider to be the wrong policy.
NICK McCALLUM:
Okay. So what have New South Wales done that is wrong about the lockdowns?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, they clearly made mistakes early in terms of the limo driver and the requirements around wearing of masks and the like and they’ve, you know, obviously changed their public health orders as a result. But Delta has changed the rules here, and it is very different to what we saw last year. But the other big difference to what we saw last year is this year we’ve got vaccinations. Last year, we didn’t, and that’s our alternative route, Nick, out of this crisis and that’s why giving businesses and families hope that the restrictions will lift at 70 and 80 per cent is really important, because I say to you - if they don’t lift at 70 and 80 per cent, which is based on the best medical advice from the Doherty Institute, then when do they – when do we reopen? At what level do we reopen? And that’s why I think we should stick to the plan as agreed at National Cabinet.
DARREN JAMES:
And I reckon you’d be a double‑AZ man in the left arm. Would I be right there?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
I was actually, because I’m under – I was at the time under 50, I got the Pfizer.
DARREN JAMES:
Oh, you’re a Pfizer man. Interesting.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
I’m a Pfizer man, but it’s pleasing that the more supply is coming on and it’s really pleasing that so many people are getting the jab.
NICK McCALLUM:
And just finally, do you understand, I mean, you don’t necessarily have to agree with it, but do you understand what Mr Andrews says he is doing here, and that is he’s trying to reduce the numbers as dramatically as he can as a launching pad to opening up so it will be easier to open up, when we hit that 70 or 80 per cent? Do you understand that tactic?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
I certainly understand the need to suppress the virus, but I also point out what Sharon Lewin, the Head of the Doherty Institute, has said, which is that it doesn’t matter if you start with 30 cases or 800 cases; you can still open up in a COVID safe way. And that’s the medical experts. You know, they talk about the impact on kids and, of course, we’ve seen an increased number of cases in kids, but they also talk about the less severity of the illness in kids compared to older people, and we’ve obviously seen that in the number of hospitalisations as well. So, I think we just have to keep a sense of perspective here. I think we have to keep the fear out of the debate. I think we have to have an honest conversation with the Australian people, the Victorian people, that you cannot eliminate the virus and I think we have to move to where other countries are, which is living safely with the virus, even if there are more cases and even if there are, tragically, some deaths.
NICK REECE:
Treasurer, on a lighter note, I see that you are camping out with the boss. You and the –
DARREN JAMES:
The schnitzel.
NICK REECE:
You and Scott Morrison are staying together at the lodge there. How’s that going? And I read in the paper you had a microwave schnitzel the other night, which is something I’ve never tried before. How did that go down?
DARREN JAMES:
Don’t put a schnitzel in the microwave.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, a lot of people contacted me and said, “Doesn’t that make it soggy, Josh?” But, you know, it was – there was some mash there, there was some broccoli and chicken schnitzel as well. It was very nice of him, very generous of him, obviously, to invite me to stay. I accepted it and it’s been good – he has been good company. We’ve had a lot of opportunities to talk shop, watched a bit of the footy last night – well done to the Dees – and, you know, also to watch a few movies and play a bit of pool and billiards. But ACT is in lockdown, so an unusual situation.
DARREN JAMES:
A little bit of honesty, seriously, does he know anything about football? Did you have to teach him all about what was going on?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
A little bit of honesty here; he certainly is following it and he was watching it intently with me, and we talked about the season. Obviously, you know, the emotional favourites are Melbourne given that it’s been so long, but he was also quick to watch the Cronulla Sharks have a win as well.
DARREN JAMES:
Did he have any idea who Max Gawn was, for instance?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, I did point out to him that, you know, All‑Australian ruckman and kicked that goal after the siren last week and he is a champion, Gawny, and I tell you, the whole Melbourne team were really up and about last night.
DARREN JAMES:
When you’re yelling out “Ball! Ball!” at the screen, does he know what the hell you’re talking about?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, I only do that when we go to Carlton and Richmond together, you know, [inaudible] the season.
DARREN JAMES:
Josh, enjoy the leftover soggy schnitzel if you have got some and thanks for joining us this morning.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Good to be with you guys. All the very best.