FRAN KELLY:
Treasurer, thanks very much for joining us.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Always a pleasure. Nice to be with you, Fran.
FRAN KELLY:
Treasurer, Sydney and surrounding regions will be kept locked down for at least another seven days, given the restrictions will now stretch beyond a fortnight, will anyone who loses work be eligible for the Commonwealth’s COVID Disaster Payment that you announced during the recent Melbourne lockdown? Is that an automatic payment?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
That payment is available to anybody who’s been in a designated hotspot that’s been locked down for a period of longer than a week, and that is already applying and available to people across Sydney and some parts of broader New South Wales. That’s a payment of $500 if you’ve lost more than 20 hours of work a week or a payment of $325 if you’ve lost less than 20 hours of work a week. It’s on top of the $41 billion of direct COVID economic support that we announced in the Budget just a matter of weeks ago, Fran, when we expected that there would be further outbreaks and further lockdowns. But we transitioned off those major emergency support programs like JobKeeper to more targeted support, including the tax relief, the infrastructure projects, the skills programs, which are all designed to boost aggregate demand and support the momentum that we are seeing in the economic recovery.
FRAN KELLY:
In terms of that momentum, the country’s biggest city is going to be locked down now for even longer, for another week. What damage will this do to the economic recovery, which the Reserve Bank has said has been stronger than first expected?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, you’re right, that’s what the Reserve Bank said yesterday, stronger and faster than we’ve expected. And we’ve seen the unemployment rate fall to 5.1 per cent in May. That’s where it was in February last year before the height of the pandemic. And we saw 115,000 jobs being created in the month of May, and we’ve also seen in the most recent National Accounts economic growth being stronger than even the market was expecting. So, we’ve been moving in the right direction, but the lockdown in New South Wales is a reminder of the challenges posed by the pandemic, but particularly this new Delta strain, which is more contagious and more difficult. It’s also a reminder of how important it is to get on with that four stages of the road map to recovery that the Prime Minister laid out to the National Cabinet just last week and was agreed by Premiers and Chief Ministers. But in terms of the cost to the community, it is significant. It dents investment. It obviously hurts businesses that have already absorbed quite a hit over the course of this pandemic. In the case of the most recent Victorian lockdown, it was Treasury’s estimate that that was costing at least $100 million a day. So, these are not insignificant figures and not an insignificant impact on the economy.
FRAN KELLY:
And the Federal Government’s made no secret of its frustration at Victoria’s lockdowns. When Melbourne was locked down last year, admittedly for much longer, you accused the Andrews Labor Government of “callous indifference to the loss of jobs for small business, the bloody mindedness is forgivable.” Are you critical of the New South Wales Government for this now three week lockdown, acting on the health advice, just as Premier Dan Andrews said he was? Or don’t Liberal Premiers deserve the same criticism?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, the experience of Victoria and New South Wales are like chalk and cheese. If you want to talk about the length of the lockdown in Victoria, it’s been more than 150 days, and it’s been less than 50 days that we’ve seen across parts of New South Wales, and kids are being kept out of school in Victoria for more than 21 weeks whereas it was just 29 days in New South Wales. So there have been very significant differences between the experience in Melbourne and the experience in Sydney. And…
FRAN KELLY:
And you don’t think that reflects differences in the way the outbreaks occurred?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well…
FRAN KELLY:
That warranted that difference?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
…as you know and I know, last year the outbreak occurred in Victoria which was the subject of the major lockdown was the quarantine failure and then the State Government had a review and the review found that no‑one had made a decision, quite bizarrely. But in terms of what has recently happened in New South Wales. Obviously, this is the result of the most recent Delta variant, which is more contagious. But if any state Premier has shown their ability to get on top of this virus quickly, even when there are outbreaks, it’s Gladys Berejiklian, so I will back her and her ability and her state’s ability to get on top of this virus, although it is more contagious now with the Delta variant.
FRAN KELLY:
And 85 per cent of the first 117 cases in the Sydney outbreak hadn’t received even a first dose of vaccine. So, the verdict’s in, isn’t it? The slow pace of the rollout is squarely to blame for Sydney being shut down for at least three weeks, and the Commonwealth has to bear some responsibility, well, the responsibility for that, doesn’t it?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, we’re rolling out the vaccine as quickly as possible. The good news is more than 8.3 million jabs have been delivered. The most vulnerable cohorts, like the over 70s, have seen more than 70 per cent of people receive a jab. The over 50s, more than 50 per cent of people have received a jab. And in terms of the eligible members of the Australian population, more than 30 per cent have received a jab. Now, as you know, we have had supply constraints. We’re looking at about 300,000 Pfizer vaccines right now a week. That steps up to about 600,000 to 700,000 by late July and in August, and then to two million a week by October. That’s the expectation. And that’s why today’s meeting with the CEOs and the business groups, which represent more than 7.5 million Australian workers, is so important. Because these businesses have experience in delivering the flu vaccination. These businesses have real resources at their disposal, whether it’s premises, logistics, community engagement strategies, the broader communications strategy. They will be really willing and able partners for the Federal Government, as they have been from day one of this pandemic when last year we got mortgage relief and rent relief for millions of Australians. So, I’m looking forward to the conversation today, speaking to Jennifer Westacott, speaking to the CEOs of Australia’s biggest companies. They’re all prepared to roll their sleeves up in this very much Team Australia moment.
FRAN KELLY:
As you say, it’s really a lay down misère; isn’t it. Its obvious 7.5million employees just sitting in workplaces ready and willing to have the vaccine brought to them, which is what the employers have been champing at the bit to do. But isn’t the same true for aged‑care workers? Why didn’t the Federal Government take this approach to aged‑care rollout and delivering it onsite, which is clearly such a good idea, as you’ve just said?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, again, we’ve taken the medical advice every step of the way with respect to the rollout of the vaccine and the best way to do it. And that has meant partnering with the GPs, now engaging the pharmacists. The vaccine rollout has gone through a number of stages. And the point about today’s meeting with the business groups is as more supply comes online, they can play a greater role. So today’s about doing the preparatory work in ensuring that we look for opportunities to work together, but also identify obstacles and barriers that may exist to working together. And by doing that in a very cooperative fashion today, and I’ll be joined by General Frewen as well as the Chief Medical Officer, it will be a very good opportunity to take this forward in partnership with the business community.
FRAN KELLY:
But aren’t you, I mean, the future is the future…
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Yes.
FRAN KELLY:
…and the vaccine supply comes on and that will be there. But are you prepared to admit at the moment that given that statistic I mentioned before – that 85 per cent of those first 117 cases in the Sydney outbreak hadn’t received even a first dose – and given the decision to not vaccinate aged‑care workers in aged‑care homes was clearly a mistake, that this vaccine rollout has not gone well?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, there has been challenges with the rollout, as there has been…
FRAN KELLY:
Well, there’s been mistakes.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, there has been challenges in quarantine, there’s been challenges with the rollout. There are some things we can control and some things we can’t. Now one of the things we can’t control has been, for example, the challenging with the AstraZeneca vaccine and the ATAGI advice and the fact that the aged cohorts that it’s available to has changed over time. And again, that is not a problem or a challenge that has been only experienced here in Australia; it’s been also one that’s been experienced in other parts of the world. But if you look at our overall health response and with that our overall economic response, you wouldn’t want to be in any other country in the world, Fran. In the United Kingdom, yes, they’ve got full crowds at Wimbledon, but they’ve seen more 120,000 deaths. I mean, we’ve seen 910 deaths in Australia, as I understand...
FRAN KELLY:
Yeah, that’s true, but that’s the past, but now…
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
But it’s actually, but Fran…
FRAN KELLY:
The vaccine rollout is in our hands now.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
I agree with that, Fran. But I don’t think you can gloss over the fact that here in Australia through our actions at the Federal Government working in partnership, of course, with the states and our wonderful and selfless health workers on the frontline, we have helped save 30,000 lives. If we had experienced the loss of life here in Australia which was consistent with the average across OECD countries, more than 30,000 people would have died. And we know that we, ahead of any other advanced economy, have seen more people in work today than before the pandemic began…
FRAN KELLY:
Okay.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
…and our economy bigger today than before the pandemic began. So, yes, we have challenges. We’re willing and able to meet those challenges, working with every member of the Australian community to do so. And there is a long way to go. But the road map that the PM set out to the Premiers and the Chief Ministers last week is really important because it moves us from the suppression stage of the virus to the prevention stage where we work to prevent serious illness, hospitalisation and ultimately fatalities.
FRAN KELLY:
And on that rollout – I know your time is tight, but a couple more points – on that rollout, do you think that everyone who wants to have a vaccine is offered one, that should be the signal for re‑opening in the four‑point plan rather than the percentage of the population vaccinated?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, again, that’s the medical advice that the Doherty Institute is working on. And that information will be available to National Cabinet, and obviously leaders and Chief Ministers will take a decision based on that medical advice. But the particular numbers that will ensure that we can re‑open, and we can, you know, move to home quarantine and that we can lift some of the restrictions that we’ve seen in place, they will be guided by the work that the Doherty Institute is doing with extensive scientific modelling.
FRAN KELLY:
And in terms of supply, the Minister says that you know – the Health Minister, Greg Hunt – we’re in the most competitive global environment imaginable in terms of, you know, competing for supply, global supply. How ironclad are the guarantees of those 40 million Pfizer doses on order? Are they contracted? Do they have penalties built in if the vaccines aren’t delivered?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, I understand they are commitments that we’ve received from those particular companies, and we’ve seen the vaccine being distributed and delivered to Australia in higher numbers each and every day. So, we’re looking forward to receiving those vaccines. But we’re keeping that dialogue open with those companies. And obviously they have their own capacity constraints, but so long as they’re continuing to produce the vaccine then they will continue to deliver it to Australia. And I also want to point out that we’re delivering vaccine to our partners in the region. And that is also very important because they’re very grateful for the work that Australia is doing to help them get through the pandemic.
FRAN KELLY:
Okay, Treasurer, I know your time is very tight.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Thank you.
FRAN KELLY:
Thank you so much for joining us.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
My pleasure.