FRAN KELLY:
Treasurer, welcome back to Breakfast.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Nice to be with you, Fran.
FRAN KELLY:
Christian Porter emphatically rejected the allegation of rape, the historic allegation, you believe him. Is it enough though to just accept the Attorney’s word, doesn’t this need to be tested by a thorough and impartial inquiry?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Christian Porter, like every other Australian, is entitled to the presumption of innocence and he did give an extensive statement and an emphatic denial of those allegations against him yesterday. But there is only one authorised body to deal with such serious criminal allegations and that is the police. The New South Wales police have put out a statement to say that the matter is closed, that the case is closed. Now, it’s been a very distressing time in Parliament for all those involved, as well as, of course, across the broader community. But Christian Porter is entitled to the presumption of innocence and the rule of law needs to apply here.
FRAN KELLY:
The Attorney-General, of course, is entitled to the presumption of innocence. But the police closed the matter because there was not enough admissible evidence because the complainant is dead. So the police couldn’t investigate, they didn’t even question the Attorney-General. Why wouldn’t you and the Attorney-General welcome some other form of independent, closed inquiry so his answers can be sort and weighed up in a formal and confidential setting, not the media storm of yesterday? Then the Government is seen to be treating these allegations seriously and the Attorney-General gets his chance to adequately answer the allegations?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
The Government is treating these matters very seriously. Christian Porter yesterday in the full glare of the national media and the Australian public, emphatically denied that those events have ever happened. There is one body that is authorised to deal with those matters and that is the police. That is the rule of law in which we all live under. I know that there are others who are calling for independent investigations, but let’s not forget, there have been other allegations against other Members of Parliament in this place at a prior period, and there was a bipartisan approach at that time where it was recognised that there wouldn’t be independent investigations, that there wouldn’t be calls for the person to stand down, but what there would be, is a reference of that matter to the police, the police then spoke and the matter was closed. The same applies here.
FRAN KELLY:
I think you’re referring to the Bill Shorten case back in 2014, the police conducted a ten month investigation. Bill Shorten was interviewed. There hasn’t been, as I mentioned, a formal interview of the Attorney-General, as far as I understand, and the complainant making the allegation is dead. So, can’t help with the police inquiry. There are some differences. We spoke earlier to experienced barrister, Rachel Doyle SC, who said perhaps we need to look at forging a new path here because a, these are different times and b, these are different circumstances. Yes, the police can’t investigate so does that mean no one investigates? Does that mean there is no weighing up of this so we can come to some kind of formal conclusion?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
These are tragic events. They are distressing events for all involved. Again, I come back to the rule of law and the law of this land and it is that the police are the authorised body to deal with these events. So, that matter has been looked at by the police and, of course, there are particular circumstances as you say which are particular to this case. But they’ve looked at this, they’ve said that the matter is closed. Christian, you could see the anguish yesterday in his press conference, he has asked for his privacy. He is going to take some time to look after his own mental health and then he will resume his duties. He has the Prime Minister’s support, he has my support in doing that.
FRAN KELLY:
This is not about breaching privacy. This is not about any kind of abrogation of the presumption of innocence. This is about whether the Government needs to do more, given the circumstances meaning the police can’t really fully investigate, you know, we’ve had this anonymous letter from the complainant’s friends, a dossier of allegations. I mean, did it surprise you that neither the Attorney-General nor the Prime Minister bothered to read that dossier? Did that surprise you?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Again, the matter was referred to the police where it should have been referred to. Christian Porter has said very clearly yesterday that those events did not happen. That is his version of events and he put that very emphatically. With respect to the Prime Minister, his position has been consistent right along, that he is not judge and jury here…
FRAN KELLY:
No, but he is the Prime Minister and this is his Attorney-General. Would you have read it if it was handed to you and you were the Prime Minister?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
I would have done what the Prime Minister did which is had it referred to the police as the appropriate body to look into it. The police have spoken and they have made it very clear that the case is closed. I know there is calls for further investigations, but again, I come back to the fundamental principle under the rule of law which is the police to look into these matters, these are matters from thirty-three years ago, and it is the police who have been charged, under our law, to look into it.
FRAN KELLY:
We’ve had criticism of the Government’s handling of this so far by Australian of the Year and sexual assault survivor, Grace Tame. We’ve got allegations from a former Liberal staffer, Brittany Higgins that she felt that she had to choose between her job and pursuing justice. We’ve got the Prime Minister accepting Christian Porter’s vigorous denial without reading the letter that contained the other side of the story. Is stronger leadership required at this time when it comes to the scourge of sexual assault? It’s a particular time.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
These are really serious issues and Grace Tame is absolutely right that victims of sexual assault deserve to have their stories told and heard…
FRAN KELLY:
And read?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Read, heard, listened to. But the point is that we have to improve the culture here in Parliament House. As I’ve said before, this is the Parliament of Australia. Australians look to us as an example. What we’ve seen in recent weeks have been a series of distressing events. The Prime Minister has set in place a series of processes to improve the culture, reaching across the political aisle to do so, and that’s an important way forward.
FRAN KELLY:
With culture, tone is a part of that. Now we’ve got reports that the Defence Minister, Linda Reynolds, called her former staffer, Brittany Higgins, a “lying cow” after she went public with her allegation of rape. The Minister has not denied those reports. Is calling an alleged rape victim a “lying cow” good for the culture? Defensible in any shape or form?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Again, I point you to Linda Reynold’s statement that she’s put out, which said she has never challenged the version of events that Brittany Higgins…
FRAN KELLY:
No, but she didn’t say she didn’t call her a “lying cow.”
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
She hasn’t said that she did, either. That is the speculation in the media. The key point is that she said that she’s never challenged Brittany Higgins’ version of events and, at all stages, Linda has said that she thought she was acting in the best interests of Brittany Higgins providing the support that was needed.
FRAN KELLY:
Let’s move to the economy. The GDP figures out yesterday were undeniably good. The economy grew by a better than expected 3.1 per cent in the December quarter. Are we looking at a ‘V’-shaped recovery after all?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Certainly, that was one of the charts that I showed at the press conference yesterday. As you say, the economy grew by 3.1 per cent in the December quarter. This occurred even though in that quarter the Government’s direct economic support halved, compared to the previous period. We saw 320,000 jobs also created in the December quarter and we saw 2.1 million Australians come off JobKeeper. I think the message here is that the Australian economy has been remarkably resilient, the economic support from the Federal Government has made a big difference. Of course, we’ve welcomed the state governments support as well. Restrictions have eased, confidence has come back and what was particularly pleasing in yesterday’s numbers was to see the private sector playing its role with household consumption being up, with business investment being up, with dwelling investment being up. All as a result of both Government programs like HomeBuilder and the instant asset write off, but also the confidence that is building across the economy. This is was the first time, Fran, since records began back in 1959, that Australia has enjoyed two consecutive quarters of economic growth of more than 3 per cent. We have outperformed all other advanced economies in the world on the economic front.
FRAN KELLY:
What do you think will happen when JobKeeper ends at the end of this month? More people undoubtedly forced onto the jobless queues for a period. How much of drag on growth will that be? What will that do to that 3.1 per cent?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Look, I think it will be bumpy…
FRAN KELLY:
What does bumpy mean?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
The Reserve Bank Governor and the Head of Treasury have spoken about the impact it may have on the labour market in the short-term. But what we will continue to see over the course of the year is the steady trajectory and momentum of the recovery building, particularly as the vaccine is rolled out. I want to point out to you and your listeners that Treasury advised the Government last year that the JobKeeper program had a number of perverse features or characteristics that became more pronounced as the economy strengthened. Namely, that it hampered mobility across the labour market, the reallocation of workers to more efficient roles and it propped up some businesses that were not sustainable in the long term. It always was meant to be a temporary program initially for six months, we extended it for 12 months. Every dollar we’re spending is a borrowed dollar. At $90 billion, it’s already the most expensive Government program we have ever had. So, there will be other supports. There is the JobMaker hiring credit, business investment incentives, there is infrastructure spending that were brought forward. There are training places – all of which will help support the economy even as JobKeeper ends.
FRAN KELLY:
Just one last question coming from the Aged Care Royal Commission. billions and billions of dollars will be needed to give older Australians the standard of care they deserve. You’re playing down the prospect of a tax increase or a levy which were the recommendations from the Commissioners. Really only leaves tightening the means test so people will use either more of their retirement savings to fund their care, maybe leverage homes or super to contribute to aged care. Is that your strategy?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
You’re right that it’s going to require extra spending on aged care. We’ve already made an interim response and we’ll carefully consider that eight-volume piece of work by the Royal Commission which we’re taking very seriously. The Prime Minister commissioned the Royal Commission in the first instance and we’ll look at all of those recommendations properly. As for paying for that increase spending in aged care, we do that by growing the economy. That’s the key here. But I do recognise there is going to need to be more spending. Let’s not forget that when we came to Government about $13 billion a year was being spent on aged care, today it’s more than $23 billion a year…
FRAN KELLY:
And it could rise to $131 billion. Growing the economy is one thing, but not means testing?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Again, we will have more to say in the Budget context about what is a very substantial and significant piece of work by the Royal Commission for which we are very grateful for.
FRAN KELLY:
Treasurer, thank you very much for joining us.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Thank you.