LAURA JAYES:
Josh, thank you for your time. Annastacia Palaszczuk…
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Nice to be with you, Laura.
LAURA JAYES:
…said some things yesterday that have raised a lot of eyebrows. Essentially, she’s saying she’s not going to lift her border until children are vaccinated. Can you do anything about that? Does the Federal Government have any power?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, in terms of opening up their borders, that will be a decision that they’ll need to take and in terms of easing the restrictions, they’ll do so, states, under their own public health orders. But they were deeply disappointing comments from the Queensland Premier. They don’t reflect the medical advice that’s available to us. No country around the world is vaccinating those very young children. What we are doing, based on the medical advice, is vaccinating the 12 to 15 year‑old cohort. The Doherty Institute modelling upon which the national plan is based took into account the impact of COVID on children. Now, children do get COVID, but the illnesses that the medical experts are seeing is much less severe than we are seeing in the older age cohort. So, our priority is to ensure as many people get vaccinated as possible but to stick to the plan agreed to at National Cabinet. That gives people hope. That gives people the opportunity to plan themselves for their future, and that is our pathway out of this crisis.
LAURA JAYES:
Okay. What is Annastacia Palaszczuk doing?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, again I think she is delaying the inevitable. The people in Queensland, as the people in Western Australia, as the rest of Australia, needs to learn to live with COVID. That’s the reality. Other countries are doing so, and Australia will need to do so. It was pleasing to hear the comments from the Premier in Victoria yesterday acknowledging that they can’t eliminate COVID in that state. You can suppress it. You can try to buy time as more people get vaccinated, but you can’t eliminate it. Now, in Queensland or Western Australia, they may not have the same number of COVID cases today as in the southern states, but whether it’s in a week or a month or even longer than that, you will see COVID outbreaks in those states; and, so, therefore, people need to protect themselves by getting vaccinated as well as ensuring that the economy can reopen as quickly as possible.
LAURA JAYES:
What about your home State of Victoria, now the most locked-down city in the world almost in Melbourne. Businesses now this week say they need more help. Why isn’t JobSaver accessible to them?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, we reached a partnership agreement with the Victorian Government as we reached partnership agreements with the New South Wales Government and other governments. In Victoria, we are providing grants, in some cases up to $20,000, to large hospitality venues and smaller grants to a whole range of other businesses…
LAURA JAYES:
The point is it doesn’t seem enough at this point in the pandemic. Is it enough? Are you talking with the Premier about pumping more money into those businesses?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, we obviously are pumping a lot of money into Victoria. Some $2 billion has already gone into Victoria from us and the State Government for this most recent lockdown alone. Now, it’s not just a 50–50 split when it comes to business support, but we’re picking up the whole tab for the COVID disaster payments across hotspots in that state. So, we’re picking up $750 a week to households and workers based on the number of hours lost, and we’re also picking up half the tab for the business support. And, as you know, we’ve provided a lot of other economic supports throughout this crisis. So, we are providing the necessary and immediate support to help people get through to the other side.
LAURA JAYES:
Treasurer, there is a direct link here between the lack of vaccines and the economic damage in this country, isn’t there? We can see it in the GDP.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, what we can see in the GDP numbers yesterday was that the economy grew in the June quarter despite those lockdowns, and it was better than what the market was expecting. Twenty‑nine days out of that…
LAURA JAYES:
It could have been better if we had [inaudible].
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Twenty‑nine days, Laura, in that quarter saw lockdowns in one part of the country or another, and that included across our four largest states. In the September quarter, which we’re currently in, we’re going to see a contraction in the economy, which Treasury believes will be at least two per cent and that is because our two larger states, New South Wales and Victoria, have gone through sustained lockdowns. But this is underlying the fact that not only is our economy resilient, but once restrictions are eased, you see household consumption, you see investment bounce back and that is why we need to stick to the plan. It is a plan that all the territories’ Chief Ministers and all the Premiers of the various states agreed to at National Cabinet. It’s a plan that’s been backed in by business very strongly and yesterday it’s a plan based on the medical advice.
LAURA JAYES:
Sure. And look, Treasurer, you weren’t in charge of ordering vaccines and you’re not in charge of the rollout, but ultimately you have to pay for it and this fumble has cost billions, hasn’t it?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, the economy has been hit hard by the Delta variant. It’s costing $2 billion a week to have these two major states in lockdown and that’s just in the lost economic activity. You overlay with more than a billion dollars from…
LAURA JAYES:
Isn’t the point, though, that if we were already at 70 or 80 per cent now, it wouldn’t be costing this much?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, we’ve been seeking to get vaccines as quickly as we can and the Prime Minister has secured extra vaccines from Poland, from Singapore. We’ve got more Pfizer coming onboard. We’ve got Moderna coming onboard, and, as you know, we have the sovereign manufacturing capability with AstraZeneca. Now, we had issues early on in the program with AstraZeneca when the medical advice was that it shouldn’t go to particular age cohorts. I’m pleased that that medical advice has now been revised and that we’ve seen a reduction in the hesitancy of people getting the vaccine. Now, the numbers are pretty impressive. You’re seeing more than 300,000 jabs a day. You’re seeing New South Wales up around 70 per cent first dose and you’re seeing Victoria just under 60 per cent but then you’re seeing Western Australia and Queensland just over 50 per cent. So, we need those states to pick up the slack, to get going, to get the jab, because that way our whole country can be safer and can be economically stronger.
LAURA JAYES:
Yeah, we hope that comes sooner rather than later. Now, as you say, some states are lagging behind. New South Wales is going to hit 70 and 80 per cent of that vaccine threshold sooner rather than later. With other states lagging behind, do you really expect New South Wales to wait for them before they start opening up?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
I expect that New South Wales will start to ease restrictions, as the Premier has indicated publicly and, of course, that needs to be done in a COVID‑safe way based on the medical advice. But I can understand people’s frustrations in New South Wales or in Victoria where they’re doing the right thing, getting the jab, and they want to see something in return. And that means going about their daily lives in a COVID-safe way. These stringent lockdowns that are occurring in New South Wales and Victoria, but not in Queensland or Western Australia or other states, are actually having a very significant impact not just on the economy, Laura, but on people’s wellbeing…
LAURA JAYES:
That’s right. And you have to…
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
There’s been a surge in the number of teenagers…
LAURA JAYES:
And you have talked about this number of teenagers…
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
I have…
LAURA JAYES:
…with mental health issues, but a couple of weeks ago you stood up with Treasury modelling and said short, sharp lockdowns are the most effective way to handle this virus. Are you standing by that is that still the case given what we have seen in Victoria? I mean, Dan Andrews couldn’t have locked down harder or faster and we’re seeing 170 cases today.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, the point of the Doherty modelling is that stringent lockdowns become unlikely at 70 to 80 per cent. Other health restrictions may remain in place – masks, social distancing, density limits – and that will be understandable. But we can avoid those stringent lockdowns and that’s the key point once you get to those vaccination rates of 70 to 80 per cent…
LAURA JAYES:
But it can’t be avoided now. Is that what you’re saying?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, right now we’re still in the suppression phase. That’s important. And in Victoria, he’s announced that kids can go back shortly to playgrounds and that’s welcome. My broader point, though, is that the wellbeing of our children is being, obviously, damaged by these longer lockdowns. They’re the bluntest of instruments and we’ve seen in Victoria more than 340 teenagers a week, Laura, turning up at hospitals with mental health-related issues, whether it’s anxiety, depression, eating disorders or indeed much, much worse. That’s a 163 per cent increase…
LAURA JAYES:
More children are dying from…
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Yes, but that’s a…
LAURA JAYES:
More children are dying from these issues than they are from COVID. Something’s not right here.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
And that’s what – well, you’ve got to get the balance right because those numbers of kids…
LAURA JAYES:
The balance is not right, right now.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Yeah. Laura, the number of kids who are turning up at hospitals in Victoria is a 163 per cent increase on the numbers we were seeing pre-pandemic. In New South Wales it is about a 50 per cent increase. And that’s why I’ve been saying: when it comes to the health outcomes, it’s not just preventing COVID which we should be considering; we should also be considering what the wellbeing and the impact of the lockdowns are having on our kids. Professor McGorry, a noted psychiatrist and a former Australian of the Year, has talked about the shadow pandemic that’s occurring in our midst, and this is why I want to see kids back at school. This is why I want to see lockdowns go no longer than absolutely necessary, because we need to give people hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel. That’s why that 70 to 80 per cent number is so important, not just for our economy, of course, but something much more important than our economy, namely, our mental health and the wellbeing of our children.
LAURA JAYES:
Josh Frydenberg. Thanks for your time. Excuse the passion. When you talk about kids, as you know, it’s hard to reign it in sometimes and it’s a tragedy what’s happening in many quarters. Thanks so much for your time as always.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
My pleasure, Laura.