NEIL MITCHELL:
On the line, he has been suffering COVID, his first day back at work. Josh Frydenberg, good morning.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Good morning. Nice to be with you Neil, and happy new year to all your listeners.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Thank you. I’d like to get to your personal experience of COVID in a moment. But can you guarantee our supermarkets will not run out of basic supplies?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, I’m actually here in Laverton at a Coles distribution centre, and they have said that the recent changes we’ve made to the isolation requirements through National Cabinet have actually been helpful in getting workers back to work. But they are still seeing high numbers of absentee workers, just as we’re seeing among our trucking industry and in our abattoirs. And it is something we’re seeking to mitigate the effects of by providing, you know, additional support and changing those isolation requirements.
NEIL MITCHELL:
So that’s a no? No guarantee the supermarkets will be full?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, I’m confident that the supermarkets are adapting to the situation that they find themselves in. We’ll continue to have food on our shelves. But we will see pressure on the supply chains I think, you know, for a little while yet.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Treasurer, this looks like crisis management. This was always a possibility to happen. It was always a possibility, yet the government, state and federal, seem to be running around like headless chooks, “Oh, what do we do? How do we fix it?” Why was there not a plan in place for exactly this?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, we’ve actually been dealing with keeping essential workers on the job right through this crisis. This is a new phase. Omicron is different to Delta. We’re not seeing widespread lockdowns…
NEIL MITCHELL:
Yeah, but it was inevitable. It was inevitable. The experts have been telling us it was inevitable, and we (inaudible)
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
But the problem is not unique to Australia. Every country is going through the same challenges. We’ve already made changes to ensure that students can work more hours. As I said, the isolation requirements, so if you’re an asymptomatic close contact you can get back to work. That’s making a difference. We’ve broadened that out to water, to energy, to education, to telecommunications to get more of those essential workers back on the job. And, of course, we’re still in the middle of the pandemic. But the good news is that Omicron is 75 per cent less severe than Delta. And many people like myself may have experienced the symptoms of Omicron, but we didn’t end up in hospital and now we can get back to work.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Well, yes, it is 75 per cent, it is significantly less dangerous at certain ages. But, that only underlines the point, it is still causing this massive disruption. How do you keep schools open, for example, if you’ve got half the teachers isolating? How are you going to keep the schools open?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, we’re actually agreeing through National Cabinet hopefully this week, on the implementation of a national plan to do exactly that, which could involve rapid antigen tests, obviously masks and other COVID‑safe measures…
NEIL MITCHELL:
Masks for kids?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, there are already masks for kids, but at different age groups. But also rapid antigen tests for teachers, rapid antigen tests for students. These are some of the details that we’re working through because if the schools and the childcare centres close, Neil, Treasury estimate that that could see an increase of 5 per cent in the number of workers who are actually absent from the workforce as parents would be forced to stay home to look after their kids. So the economy is a complex ecosystem. Kids have suffered enough through this crisis, particularly in Victoria. So I think it’s really important for their mental health, but also for their developmental outcomes, that we get our kids back to school at the start of term 1.
NEIL MITCHELL:
The health system is staggering. We’re told people are dying who should not be dying, who don’t need to die, because the system is so, in such a crisis. Who’s fault is that?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, the health system has had time to prepare, but at the same time they do, you know, find themselves in the middle of a pandemic. The number of people who are in ICU and the number of people who are on ventilators, you know, hopefully can be managed. But, again, the difference with Omicron is it’s not leading to the same number of hospitalisations in proportion to the number of cases.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Yeah, but – that’s true. That’s very true. But we have many people in the hospital system and the health system and the GPs saying they’ve hit this crunch. There is a real crisis, regardless of the virulence of Omicron or anything else. What did we do to actually make the health system ready? Because it’s not. And whose fault is that? Whose fault is it that the health system is in this crisis?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, firstly, you’ve got the problem of absenteeism at this time which is putting more pressure…
NEIL MITCHELL:
I know why. But…
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
There were a number of steps that have been taken within the health system to try to get more resources available. And as you know, there were some dramatic measures taken, like postponing elective surgery to free up broader resources. But what we’re seeing in New South Wales in some of these early numbers, and the medical experts are saying this, is that perhaps Omicron is starting to peak. And if that is the case and it starts to plateau and then the numbers hopefully come down. Now, I don’t have a crystal ball so I can’t, and I’m not a medical expert, so I can’t give you an iron‑clad guarantee on that. But if we can see the numbers peak and then start to come down, then I think we can start to, you know, better manage through our health system the challenges that we face.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Yeah, but that’s at least a couple of weeks off, at least a couple of weeks off.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
And this is very challenging.
NEIL MITCHELL:
But how many people die in the meantime because we haven’t got, we talked about flattening the curve so that we had things ready. We talked about 4,000 ICU beds in Victoria, which still hasn’t happened. We’ve failed by any definition to achieve what we were supposed to achieve by going into lockdown and flattening the curve.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
I’d actually challenge what you just said then, Neil, because I think Australia has performed on both the health and the economic front better than nearly any other country in the world. Over 2,000 Australians have lost their lives, but in the United States it’s well north of half a million and in the United Kingdom, you know, it’s up to 200,000, getting up to those sort of numbers. And we have seen here a mortality rate which is much less severe than the rest of the world. At the same time we have a high vaccination rate with over 92 per cent of Australians aged over 16 double dosed. In the most vulnerable cohorts of over 70 that is 99 per cent. We’ve seen nearly 300,000 vaccines being distributed to those 5 to 11‑year‑olds in just a few days. The booster shots, we’ve got 24 million in stock, more than four and a half million have actually gone out. And our economic recovery, while not yet locked in, has certainly been better than, again, many other countries.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Okay, a couple of quick questions. Can you prevent chemists from having to close?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, again, in my book, chemists are essential workers. And, you know, there’s a broader suite of workers that National Cabinet have laid out that they want to ensure keep working through this crisis.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Yep, so you will add chemists to that, will you?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, I think that that should be absolutely considered. I’ll have a look where the latest list is. Originally we started with food supply chains and then we’ve expanded it to a whole range of areas. And I think chemists, you know, rightly have a good reason to be under that criteria if they’re not already.
NEIL MITCHELL:
If we introduce rapid testing in school, where will the tests come from?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, there’s around 200 million that we’ve got on order. We’ve already distributed around 5 million from the federal government through the aged‑care system. We’ve made 10 million available through the state clinics. As you know, 3 million arrived in Victoria in recent days. So there’s a lot of supply that will come on in coming weeks. And obviously through schools, that will be made available if that’s the decision that’s taken through National Cabinet.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Let’s hope the average person can buy one then.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, of course we want to see more supply, and speaking to those in the private sector, millions are on order.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Just quickly on Novak Djokovic – I know you love tennis, you played a lot of elite tennis – what’s your reply to the Serbian President saying he was tortured, and physically tortured, in Australia?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, I just completely reject those comments and make no apologies for the application of the rules here in Australia around our border protection policies that have helped keep us safe. And it doesn’t matter whether you’re the No 1 tennis player in the world or you’re Betty from Utah. If you’re unvaccinated, the same rules apply. And that’s what’s applied here, and the Minister for Immigration Alex Hawke made his decision that was upheld unanimously by the full court of the Federal Court. And the Australian Open, Neil, is a great celebration of tennis, and it’s much bigger than one individual player.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Taxation, and you’ve released today in The Australian some details of how much people, you say people have saved from your tax cuts. But Anthony Albanese is promising no new taxes…
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Don’t believe him.
NEIL MITCHELL:
What about you? Do you promise the same?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, we’re not about increasing taxes. We’ve actually been cutting taxes. And we’re rolling out stage 3 which we’ve legislated but is yet to take effect. And he had his shadow Treasurer Jim Chalmers saying that those tax cuts were offensive and now he wants us to believe that he’ll stick to it. So, you know, at the last election Anthony Albanese was talking about the top end of town. He was stoking those fires of class war rhetoric and dividing Australians. They promised a superannuation tax, a retirees tax, a housing tax. Albanese supported all of that. You can’t trust him on taxes.
NEIL MITCHELL:
So, will you go into the election promising no new taxes in the next term of government?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
We’ll be going into the election promising to keep taxes low, and our track record has been to cut taxes. And it’s not just for households, and these numbers today are pretty strong, but it’s also for small businesses. We’ve cut those taxes down to the lowest level in 50 years.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Okay, but there’s no promise on the future?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, we’re promising to keep taxes low. We’ve been cutting taxes. That’s our track record. We’ve haven’t been increasing them.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Okay. And COVID, have you fully recovered, you and your family?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
I think I’m on the mend. I wouldn’t say 100 per cent recovered because it does linger on, the fatigue, and sometimes the headaches. But it was a few rough nights there but, fortunately, we weren’t in hospital, and, you know, so many other Australians have gone through what we are going through, and maybe this is the bridge, Neil, between the pandemic and the endemic where so many people end up getting the virus.
NEIL MITCHELL:
I hope so. And rough nights? What do you mean? Difficult to breathe, temperatures, what sort of thing?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Less so breathing, it was more the sort of cold sweats and finding it difficult to sleep. And, you know, but it can be luck of the draw. I know a lot of people who tested positive but, you know, didn’t have any of those symptoms while others have had it worse, of course. And, you know, my thoughts are with all those amazing health workers who are on the frontline supporting people who have actually got it really bad.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Your children okay?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Yep. So far they had temperatures, and, you know, that was one of the normal symptoms. But so far they’re looking pretty resilient and stoic.
NEIL MITCHELL:
But were they positive or not?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
One of them was. The five‑year‑old tested positive, and the other didn’t. And so, you know, it can be quite random like that.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Okay. Well, I’m glad everybody’s coming good. Tell me, though, is COVID worse than lockdown?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, I think lockdowns are worse than Omicron. I think there’s no doubt about that. That’s why we shouldn’t be going back to even thinking about lockdowns. This is a new challenge, a new phase of the virus. I’d love to say to you this is the last variant that we’ll face, but nobody really knows. No‑one has that crystal ball. And we thought, you know, Delta was pretty bad. Then we saw Omicron and now we’re seeing, you know, hundreds of thousands of people get it. But, you know, hopefully this is meaning that we’re closer to the end rather than the beginning of this crisis. Two years has been a long time.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Thank you so much for your time. Thanks for talking to us. I know you need to get away.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Good to be with you, Neil.