RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Josh Frydenberg is the Federal Treasurer and Liberal MP, of course, for Kooyong, thanks for joining us.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Nice to be with you. Raf.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Can we start with the business supports? Can you explain what's on offer and who gets it?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
So we have joined forces with the Victorian government to create a $400 million fund. It's a 50/50 financial split and the money will be going to a range of small and medium sized businesses. Firstly there'll be grants of $5000 in a set of designated areas, consistent with what the Victorian government did previously, so that's cafes, restaurants, hospitality, service provided by caterers and the like, gyms, hairdressers, others that have been impacted by the lockdown, but also by the ongoing density limits and restrictions that are in place. There's also going to be an additional $2000 for businesses that are in the CBD. Businesses that are not on that designated list of areas will be able to access a hardship fund which will also provide additional funding, and they have to show a particular turnover reduction, and there's going to be $85 million in that fund. So in total quite a significant amount of money for businesses that are doing it tough.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
One technical detail, I'm not sure if you're across it. Printing businesses had to stay open in the city, they are essential, didn't qualify for some of those state government funds. Do you think they would likely qualify for the fund you've contributed to for businesses in the CBD?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, like I said, if they don't qualify on that designated list, they will be eligible under what is called a Small Business COVID Hardship Fund and they're businesses with a payroll of up to $10 million who have experienced a 70 per cent or greater reduction in revenue, and those grants are up to $5,000. So one would hope that they would be eligible if they've been hit hard, which no doubt many have been.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
And the income support now back to $750, which is what JobKeeper was last year. Why didn't you have this plan in place before now?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, a couple of things. Firstly, we did the right thing ending JobKeeper when we did at the end of March. That was the advice of Treasury. And the reason being is that with the labour market strengthening, it was starting to distort outcomes. It was preventing workers moving more freely between jobs, and it was costing more than $2 billion a month. And we've seen over 115,000 new jobs being created since the end of JobKeeper at the end of March.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
That's argument for why not have the same system. I guess my question was about why not have a plan for lockdown lasting for three or four weeks? Why did you not have an income support plan for that ready to go?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, because we introduced another phase of our economic support in the budget, which was just over $40 billion in a range of other support measures, in anticipation that there would be locked down, probably about one week a month, that is what Treasury was expecting at the time of the budget. What we've seen now is longer lockdowns, particularly in New South Wales. We've seen two lockdowns in a matter of months in Victoria. We have then reset our economic supports to reflect that fact.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Can I ask his question again, though, because the criticism is, why didn't you anticipate this? Surely if you thought lockdowns were a possibility, you'd have a plan for a four week lockdown? Why didn't you have that plan?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, as I said, the expectation and assumption that we put in our budget numbers was for a lockdown, probably a week duration, once a month, and what we've seen is more than that. And we've moved pretty quickly. We have put in place now these income support payments with about a million payments already processed at a cost about half a billion dollars. We have upped the size of those payments. As you say, they're the same as what JobKeeper were for the first six months of last year.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
So is the reason you didn't have this plan out there, the implied criticism is obvious; you didn't think all of the lockdowns were necessary, you thought state governments were using lockdowns too often, too long. That's why you didn't have a plan?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, the virus has, you know, morphed and changed and there's been different variants, and now we're dealing with the Delta variant, which is more contagious and also more dangerous. I think what is now the accepted wisdom is that shorter, sharper lockdown, like we've seen in Victoria, over the last couple of weeks, have been effective. The same has taken place in South Australia, with both states now coming out of lockdown, whereas in New South Wales, they didn't move as fast -
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
They moved too slow?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, they certainly didn't move as effectively as they did here in Victoria and South Australia. Now, everyone -
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
So do I need to rewind that and remind everyone that Josh Frydenberg is saying Victoria is doing lockdowns better than New South Wales, is that what you're saying?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, I said it at the time that I supported Victoria's short, sharp lockdown in this case. And what we've seen in New South Wales, higher numbers of cases, longer lockdowns, and a more painful economic and social result as the case. But going forward, I think you'll see from other states, if there are outbreaks, you'll see shorter, sharper lockdowns. And that is why our economic support payments, like the income household support that we've provided, people are eligible from day one of that lockdown, as they were in Victoria's most recent lock down.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
People in New South Wales are from day one, eligible, so from four weeks ago, eligible for 750 a week. Victoria didn't get that -
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
No, that's not right, that's not right, that's not right.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
No? When do they qualify?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
So from next week, so the $750 and the $450 payment will start to apply from next week. We also announced business support in New South Wales that goes back to the 18th of July because that's the date in which the business support starts to flow, which was effectively the fourth week of their lockdown.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Josh Frydenberg is, of course, the federal Treasurer. Josh Frydenberg, a tonne of people have texted at me your line from last year that during our lockdown, long lockdown last year, you called that the biggest policy failure of a government in history. Do you still think that is the case, given the mistakes New South Wales made being too slow with their lockdown?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, I definitely think the Victoria paid a terrible price and I don't want to relitigate the past. But as you know, I stand by those comments.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
You don't retract that, you still think what happened in Victoria was the biggest policy failure in history?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, more than 90 per cent of the lives lost, unfortunately, sadly, tragically across Australia from COVID have been in our state, and as you know, more than 200 days have seen Victorians in lockdown. Now, let's go forward and that's what I've done today with the Victorian government. Who would have thought my name would be alongside Daniel Andrews on a press release announcing this economic support. But I have a very productive and constructive relationship with the Victorian ministers and were closely with Tim Palace and also Martin Pakula. And I noted their words at their press conference today addressing the cooperation that they've had from the federal government. I mean, my focus -
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Our Small Business Minister was actually full of praise for you, but because my time is short, if I can dive in here -
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
My focus is on helping the Victorian businesses and households rebound from what has been the fifth lockdown.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Does Sydney need to have restrictions all across the city and something like a ring of steel? Dan Andrew says that's the only way for them to come out of their trouble, is he right?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, I think Gladys Berejiklian is very focused on not only ensuring that New South Wales has the appropriate set of restrictions in place, but people are prevented from going to other states -
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Is that a question you don't want to answer, or do you have an opinion about citywide restrictions?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, it's a matter for their health authorities who are going to be closest to the action to provide the advice. But I note that the restrictions that they have in place today are pretty firm, are pretty tough.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Not citywide, though, and not a ring of steel.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, they're not equally applicable in every part of the state, but they are pretty firm in a vast part of those CBD and Greater Sydney areas. And of course, like Victorians, people can only leave their homes for a set of designated prescribed set of circumstances.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
You got some praise for the state government, I just wanted to know if you agree. Both Dan Andrews and Chief Health Officer here say Victoria is the only jurisdiction in the world to quash two outbreaks of the Delta variant of the virus. Are they correct in that, we're the only place to have done it?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, let's focus on Victoria's success in coming out of lockdown. I think that is welcome, but Daniel Andrews and I, am sure we both agree, we don't know what's around the corner. So I don't think these are times to celebrate -
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
They say that's a fact. I wonder, do you agree with their fact that Victoria's quashed Delta twice?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, when you say quashed it, we don't know what is going to happen tomorrow. What we do know is that we've come out of two weeks of lockdown. That is welcome. And the hard working health authorities deserve a lot of credit for testing and tracing. And obviously, the Victorian people deserve a lot of credit for following the health advice in the restrictions. But we're not out of this by any stretch of the imagination. And unfortunately, there will be more lockdowns across the country. And that's why we've put in place these broad economic support measures that are designed to cushion the blow until we get enough people vaccinated. And yesterday we had nearly 200,000 people receive the jab. And as you know, ATAGI has changed their medical advice. And we now have an alignment between the facts on the ground, particularly in Greater Sydney, where there has been an outbreak and this new medical advice encouraging people to get the AstraZeneca vaccine rather than waiting for alternatives. And I think that is a step forward.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Did you spend enough on the vaccine last year? Something like you spent $4 billion on the vaccines last year -
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
We spent far more than that.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Did you spend enough on the vaccine last year?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
We've spent whatever has been required to get the vaccines to Australia, in adopting what has pretty much been a portfolio approach of going to different suppliers. Now with the AstraZeneca vaccine, that is the one we could make under license here in Australia through CSL. No other country in the world, Raf, as you would know, is making an mRNA vaccine that wasn't making such a vaccine prior to the pandemic.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
You're satisfied that you spent enough on Pfizer last year and you pursued them enough last year?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
We haven't spared a dollar in buying and securing and procuring vaccines. And as you know, we've just secured 85 million extra Pfizer vaccines. And now they're booster shots, I accept that, but we did get 3 million brought forward from Q4 into Q3 of the Pfizer vaccine. I'm advised that we'll be getting around 2 million a week in October. We're now getting a million a week today. These are jabs on top of the AstraZeneca, and there's more than 1 million of those now available.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
When did you last have a chat to Dan Andrews?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
That was when I sat next to him at a COAG, or now it's called National Cabinet event, where the leaders and the Treasurers were together. Given that half the leaders are now Treasurers, we came together in Canberra, so that was a few months ago. But that was also before he had his accident and I only hope him a speedy recovery -
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
And when did you last speak to Tim Pallas? When did you last speak to him?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Today
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Right.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
And also Martin Pakula and I have a good working relationship with those ministers.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
And have you had both jabs?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
I have.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Side effects?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Stronger than ever.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Thanks for your time.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
All the best.