TONY JONES:
Josh Frydenberg, good morning.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Good morning, Tony. Nice to be with you. And I’m sure Neil has got his prayers hopefully being answered on Saturday night. The big Dee man, he is.
TONY JONES:
Yeah, that’s right. And don’t you start jumping on the bandwagon.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, you know, they’re the sentimental favourites. You have to go back to 1964 when the Beatles were travelling around the country for the last Melbourne flag. So I think it’s well overdue, and they’ve certainly been a great team this year.
TONY JONES:
It’s been a long and winding road to September since, that’s for sure. So, Josh – Treasurer, one other thing I want to talk to you about – well, a couple of things I want to talk about before we get to your speech.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Sure.
TONY JONES:
One, of course, is John Elliott. You’ve obviously crossed paths on many, many occasions.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Yeah, I was friendly with John and obviously know Tom very well, and he’ll be greatly missed. He was a larger-than-life figure, a real larrikin. A very proud Victorian, great Liberal as a party president, also a great Carlton man, very proud of the jumper as a president there who’s, you know, highs at coaches level and players level led to a few premierships. So he really stood tall. He had a big impact on the corporate world, on the political world, on the sporting world. And, you know, he’ll be greatly missed, and my thoughts, Tony, very much are with his family.
TONY JONES:
Now, I’m just trying to recall, did you not turn interviewer on one occasion with Tom?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, Tom and John, you know, would share the mic, and I think it was a great sign of, you know, their relationship, and I was on the other end of that mic, being interviewed with them in the lead-up to the last election on your station here. And they were very jovial, very friendly and always a good source of advice and optimism. And I guess they probably thought we were going to get there at the last election when I had my doubts.
TONY JONES:
Well, okay. Well, history tells that they were unfounded. But what about a couple of other issues: Michael Voss, the new coach at Carlton, happy with that?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Oh, yeah. I mean, champion player, brings a lot of experience to the club, and it comes at a time when, you know, we’ve got to regroup after a challenging season. And I know Luke Sayers will do a top job just as Mark LoGiudice did before him. And I wish them well, and I feel very privileged to be the number one ticket holder. So here’s hoping for a strong 2022.
TONY JONES:
Yeah, exactly. Now, we will be getting on to your speech, but I just want to ask about…
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, it is Grand Final eve after all, Tony.
TONY JONES:
Yeah, that’s right. Okay. So we don’t want to get bogged down with too much business. But there have been some pretty unsavoury scenes unfolding in this city of ours. And you’re a proud Melbournian, a proud Victorian in general.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Yeah.
TONY JONES:
What’s the end game here?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, it is sad because these demonstrations, these violent demonstrations, are wrong or uncalled for, need to be called out and, of course, the desecration of the shrine, which is a sacred place, really was disgusting. And we, you know, need to ensure that people follow the rules, that people get the jab and that we open up in a COVID-safe way. That’s my focus. And that’s why, you know, I was so disgusted with those protests we saw the other day.
TONY JONES:
And the tactics of police? We’ve seen some pretty heavy-handed stuff. Is that just a matter of their hand being forced in many ways?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, the police are in a very difficult position, an invidious position, because they’re there to, you know, keep law and order and uphold the rule of law, but at the same time they’re confronted by some dangerous people. And, you know, thousands of them in a mob. And projectiles being thrown at them. And, you know, obviously they have to take the necessary action. But, you know, I want to commend the police for the work that they do protecting us in our community. And, you know, it’s a very difficult situation for them because they’re on the frontline day after day.
TONY JONES:
I mean, is it a case also, you know – and we’re certainly not making excuses for the actions, we’re not condoning them that’s for sure – but is it also another example of the frustrations that we’re experiencing by living in Victoria at the moment? I’m just trying to find the latest case numbers.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Over 700.
TONY JONES:
Yeah, 733 new local cases, just down slightly on yesterday’s 766. But, I mean, is it an indication so many Victorians, so many Melbournians in particular, are just simply fed up with these draconian laws which have been put in place which are affecting our lifestyle and, you know, suppressing the lifestyle that we once knew?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, certainly Victorians are pretty despondent about the long lockdowns. It’s not a world record that we want, but it’s one that we have – which is Melbourne now being the longest locked down city in the world. You know, just think about that for a minute. Every country has had to deal with COVID yet here in Melbourne we’ve been locked down for more than 230 days. Our kids have been out of school, businesses have closed, families have been divided. Indeed, Victorians have been prevented from coming back into their own state. So you can understand why people are very frustrated and they just want to get about their lives in a COVID-safe way.
And that’s why I’ve been saying for some time, you know, we’ve got to learn to live with the virus. We’re still going to have cases, we’re going to still have people getting sick and tragically people will die. But that does not mean that we stop our lives together. It does not mean we live in lockdown forever. And that’s why it’s pleasing to see so many people get the jab, because the vaccination rates are our way out of this crisis. And at 70 and 80 per cent we need to see a genuine easing of restrictions and we need to see our kids back in school and, of course, we need to see businesses reopen.
TONY JONES:
Have we got the leadership in this state that we need to get us out of this crisis?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, we’ve got the leadership that people voted for. And at the end of the day that’s where they need to pass judgement. And people need to do that in whatever way they choose. My job is as the member for Kooyong, a community that I proudly represent. It’s also as the Treasurer of the country and the Deputy Leader of the Liberal Party. That’s my job, they’re my roles, and what I’m seeking to do is support the country through a very difficult time and, indeed, support the Victorian people through a very difficult time. We’re providing an unprecedented level of economic support to businesses and to households across Victoria, indeed, more on a per capita basis have gone to the people of Victoria than to any other state. And that’s quite significant.
TONY JONES:
So what happens with the construction industry – I just want to get the official take on it – in terms of assistance? Do they get assistance over these next two weeks when the industry is shut down?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, if you’re a construction worker you are eligible for the COVID disaster payment of up to $750 a week depending on the number of hours of work that you’ve lost, and we’re picking up the tab.
TONY JONES:
What? Even if you’re protesting?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Even if you’ve been protesting. If you’ve lost your – if you lost work because the construction industry is down and you can prove that, then you can go online to the myGov website and you will receive a payment accordingly from the federal government. I mean, I saw the Premier’s comments yesterday, and I’m not going to take the bait. I’m not going to give him and his government the distraction that they’re looking for. The facts are these, Tony: the federal government is providing around twice what the state government is providing right now to Victorian households and businesses. We’re doing that through the COVID disaster payment, we’re doing that on a fifty-fifty basis for business support. In New South Wales they chose to put construction in their business support payments that we went fifty-fifty with. In Victoria they took a decision not to put construction in. They included hospitality, they included gyms, they included hairdressers and other areas. They didn’t put construction in there. In New South Wales they took a decision to provide extra financial support over and above what the federal government had provided. That’s an option that’s available now to the Victorian government. But your listeners need to understand on a per capita basis we’re providing more support into the people of Victoria than any other state. And my focus is on ensuring that 300,000 people who work in the construction industry and that long supply chain, that they’re back at work as soon as possible. Because if you’re an apprentice carpenter in Ballarat who’s been double vaxxed and you weren’t part of the protests, you’re asking why have you been shut down. And I think that’s a genuine question that obviously only the state government answer.
TONY JONES:
So when you talk about not wanting to take the bait, I mean, how can you not take the bait when Daniel Andrews gets up on one of his rare appearances and says, quote, “I want to say to Mr Frydenberg” – you – “Victorians are getting sick and tired of every time the commonwealth government spends a dollar in Victoria it’s treated like foreign aid like we should bow our head and be grateful.”
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, I think people are seeing through all that rhetoric, to be honest. You know, when they’ve seen the scenes here in Victoria, when they know the tension has been building and then suddenly there are pot shots at the fed government.
TONY JONES:
But that’s a pretty cheap shot, isn’t it?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, you know, I’m not – again, I’m going to be bigger than that. I’m not going to take – I’m not going to take the bait and give him that distraction.
TONY JONES:
All right, well, let’s talk about greenhouse emissions, because I know time is against you here, and it would seem when it comes to climate change time might be against us generally. But we’re talking about 2050 here in particular.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Yeah, my speech today is to explain to the Australian people about the significant change that is taking place in financial markets. You see, Tony, whether it’s the industrial revolution or more recently the digital age, financial markets have been adjusting to seismic and significant structural shifts. And that impacts on us here in Australia because we’re so dependent on foreign investment. We have about $4 trillion of foreign investment here in Australia. About half of our government bonds are purchased by overseas investors. About 20 per cent of the banks’ funding is borrowed from overseas. And that’s funding that’s used by banks for household mortgages or for small business loans. And so I want to make sure that Australia’s not disadvantaged by this structural shift in financial markets but to, the contrary – that Australia is taking advantage of this shift so that we’re getting more investment into traditional industries, into renewable industries and that that flow of capital that we’re so heavily reliant on continues into the future.
TONY JONES:
But this could be at odds with the Nationals, couldn’t it? I mean, well, it is at odds with the Nationals?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, there are always differing views. You know, having been the environment and the energy Minister I’ve got the scars to show you. This is a long issue, a long and hard issue for Australia that we’ve been debating for some time. It’s been obviously, in some quarters, it has become a cultural issue as opposed to an economic one or a scientific one or indeed an engineering one. And that is how I’m seeing it. I’m seeing it from the point of view here of economics, environmental priorities and of course technological change because the technology is changing very rapidly. And this is going to support traditional businesses and industries, for example the need for nickel and copper in the future is going to be a lot greater because of electric vehicles. We’re seeing solar panels on one in four Australian households. That’s the highest on a per capita basis anywhere in the world. And we’ve entered into these agreements with countries like the United – with Britain and the United States and Singapore and Germany in order to advance these new technologies like hydrogen. You’ve got companies like Fortescue, Tony, that have invested a billion dollars in hydrogen technology as a clean fuel going forward. So it’s a very exciting transformation that’s taking place, and Australia is doing good things. We’re at the front, the cutting edge of some of these technologies, particularly some of those big companies like BHP and Rio, and I want to see, you know, that trend continue. I want to see Australia reduce its emissions but also I want to see Australia’s economy remain strong.
TONY JONES:
All right. And a pretty important speech you’re about to deliver. Just before we let you go, just very quickly, where were you when the earthquake hit?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
I was on a Zoom call in my Camberwell office with my Victorian colleagues and Dan Tehan was out in Hamilton. He didn’t feel it there and then another colleague Alan Tudge was in Wantirna South and he was evacuated from his office. And we decided, “Okay, guys let’s go off the call, ring our families, check everyone’s okay,” and then we resumed normal business. But it was a shock, excuse the pun.
TONY JONES:
Yeah, it was. Where did you say Alan Tudge was?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
He was at Wantirna South.
TONY JONES:
Okay.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
His office is out there.
TONY JONES:
One of John Elliott’s gems.
JOHN ELLIOTT:
Where’s Wantirna?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Geez you’re quick off the mark there.
TONY JONES:
Oh, dear.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Pig’s arse. Pig’s arse. Although he denied he ever said that.
TONY JONES:
No, he never said it. Hey, do you reckon they should put his name back on the stand?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Oh, well, you know, that’s a decision for higher authorities than me. But, you know, certainly he’s well loved down at Carlton. And, I mean, if you think what he did with the coaches and the players and, sure, there was a bit of controversy there but he wanted success. You know, Greg Williams was telling the story, Tony, the other day I read that he would only go into the rooms after a Carlton win. That’s the level of success that he expected. And you remember him, you know, with the VB or the Fosters in one hand and the cigarette in the other. He really was a great Carlton man. And, you know, we need to see that success back on the field, and hopefully Vossy and the rest of the team can deliver that next year.
TONY JONES:
All right, come on, just before we let you go, give us that John Elliott impersonation one more time.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Which one? Pig’s arse?
TONY JONES:
Yeah, go on. That’s the one. All right, beautiful. Good on you. Night to talk to you, Treasurer.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
All the best, Tony. Bye.
TONY JONES:
Federal Treasurer Josh Frydenberg joining us there. I tell you what, we covered a few topics, that’s for sure And it ended in a manner I didn’t think a Federal Treasurer would ever end an interview, with the old pig’s arse.