VIRGINIA TRIOLLI:
Josh Frydenberg, good morning to you.
JOSH FYDENBERG:
Good morning Virginia, nice to be with you.
VIRGINIA TRIOLLI:
Before we get to other things, do you know when Malka Leifer will arrive in Australia?
JOSH FYDENBERG:
No I don’t, but obviously I’ve been watching those events closely and justice delayed has been justice denied and I think everyone is looking forward to justice being served.
VIRGINIA TRIOLLI:
Does the Federal Government have a concern that it’s taken so long since she left Israel to actually land on Australian soil? Are you worried that something else is afoot?
JOSH FYDENBERG:
Well obviously those matters are being managed by the Foreign Affairs Minister, the Attorney General. I do know that it’s taken some years for her to come to Australia because she’s been exhausting the legal processes in Israel. That’s been unfortunate, but it’s also been their processes but now that she’s on her way to Australia and obviously here to face justice.
VIRGINIA TRIOLLI:
But you’re pretty sure that our security services will have a handle on where exactly she is right now?
JOSH FYDENBERG:
Well again, I don’t know the specifics about the arrival, but what I do know is that she is on her way to Australia.
VIRGINIA TRIOLLI:
And she’ll have to quarantine, I guess here in Melbourne, yes?
JOSH FYDENBERG:
I’m sure all the health practices are being adhered to.
VIRGINIA TRIOLLI:
I want to talk in a moment about the money the Government’s putting towards establishing a new Canberra Holocaust Museum to go with the other ones that are in states around the country. But it is International Holocaust Memorial Day today, which is a very difficult day for not only for Jewish people, but for, really for, all right thinking people around the world. But as a Jewish man, when you see far right activists, such as the so called ‘Proud Boys’ out and about in your hometown of Melbourne yesterday as they were, a group that’s now specifically trying to rebrand itself in the US as anti-Semitic, how does that make you feel?
JOSH FYDENBERG:
I think it’s frightening for us all. I think it’s very concerning and there is a rise in far right conspiracy theories and a rise in anti-Semitism globally as well as we’ve seen it here in Australia and indeed in Melbourne, we’ve seen school kids as young as five are being called Jewish cockroaches, swastikas daubed on advertising for theatre productions, dare I say it for an Anne Frank show and a number of other examples where antisemitism has been on the rise. But to the credit of governments, state and federal, this is a real focus for them and I do congratulate the Andrews Government for ensuring that Holocaust education is being taught in all schools across the state for years nine and ten and I think that’s a good example for other states to follow.
VIRGINIA TRIOLLI:
The Government’s providing $750,000 towards the establishment of a Canberra Holocaust museum and education centre. I must admit I was surprised to learn that there wasn’t one in Canberra.
JOSH FYDENBERG:
Well there have been exhibits, including at the Australian War Memorial, some very powerful ones, indeed, when Paul Keating opened one many years ago, he said how daunted he was to speak about the unspeakable, but how important it was for exhibits such as those to be made available, so that we could remember the loss of innocents, but also the lessons past. We have seen the South Australian Government help establish a museum there in Victoria and New South Wales, museums have been long standing, supported by both state governments and the Palaszczuk Government and the McGowan Government, to their credit, have also announced funding recently for the establishment of Holocaust museums and our partnership is with Andrew Barr’s Government here in the ACT as well. So these are not necessarily Federal only support packages, these are done together with state and territory governments regardless of the political persuasion. Today I put pen to paper with Josh Burns, a Labor Member for the Federal Seat of Macnamara, who also lost family members in the Holocaust, just to remind everyone about the importance of International Holocaust Remembrance Day and to remind everyone that the Holocaust was a crime, not just against the Jewish people, it was a crime against humanity and there were thousands and thousands of Roma and Sinti and homosexuals, and disabled, and Jehovah’s Witnesses and religious political prisoners who also died at the hands of the brutal Nazi killing machine as well as the six million Jews and the tragically 1.5 million Jewish children.
VIRGINIA TRIOLLI:
It’s going to, the rise of anti-Semitism, the Proud Boys and the far right groups, they’re going to have to be called out, aren’t they, and called out loudly by political leaders, by leaders in society, by everyone, by our Federal leadership in particular if it’s not to rise in the way that it has in the United States.
JOSH FYDENBERG:
Absolutely.
VIRGINIA TRIOLLI:
On reflection, should the Capitol riot and everything that that signified with the rise of the far right in America, should it have been called out just a bit more strongly by Scott Morrison, by the Prime Minister? It was disappointing to many that he seemed to take a mild approach to that.
JOSH FYDENBERG:
I disagree. He did call it out, I’ve called it out, others have called it out. I mean, it was despicable, it was disgusting and as I say, it was frightening to see that attack on the United States Capitol, which has been a beacon of democracy for the rest of the world. And as you say, there were people in that mob who were wearing Camp Auschwitz t-shirts, the Proud Boys, QAnon and other groups who have been promoting some anti-Semitic rhetoric and conspiracy theories. And that terrible t-shirt that we see as well, 6MWE, six million wasn’t enough, as a reference to the Holocaust. So on this day, like all days, we should remember the innocent but also we should say never again.
VIRGINIA TRIOLLI:
Should those groups be shut down?
JOSH FYDENBERG:
Well again, that’s going to be a matter for legal authorities. I do know that our security agencies are watching the rise of the far right very carefully and taking whatever steps they deem necessary.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
I wanted to ask you, we would never give an Australia Day award to a Holocaust denier. For trans kids being denied their humanity and being called ‘of the devil’ by now newly anointed AC recipient, Margaret Court, that’s their version of that kind of outrage. So, given that context, is her award then appropriate?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Virginia, I totally disagree with what Margaret Court has said about homosexuality and transgender children and so on. I disassociate myself very clearly with those comments like others do. As you know, this is an independent process that Government doesn’t direct and there has been concerns – and sure, the comments have been of a different nature – around Bettina Arndt, Mike Carlton and others receiving the award and at that time the Council for the Order of Australia put out a very clear statement saying that the social views or the religious views or the political leanings, neither qualified nor disqualified people for these awards and Margaret Court was given it for her tennis achievements; 24 grand slams…
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
So we don’t have a ceiling? We don’t have an upper limit on what is tolerated in terms of publicly expressed views?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
In terms of publicly expressed views, you’ve heard a lot of people being critical of those views and that is an absolute, legitimate issue to raise. But in terms of her receipt of the award, that is the process that is in place. You receive them for your achievements in your specific field. Now, you can lose the award as the Order has pointed out for convictions of crimes or for adverse findings by courts or, indeed, for civil penalties. But none of those apply in this particular case.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Treasurer, the IMF has upgraded its growth forecast globally, but does warn that recovery is going to be uneven and patchy. It is also wants governments, it says, to introduce policies that will deal with the inequality revealed by the pandemic. Now, I know that is something that bothers you in particular. So, what particular policies are you developing to deal with the entrenched inequality that has been revealed by the pandemic?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Actually, the facts tell a different story, Virginia, in terms of what has happened to inequality over the course of the pandemic. So, since the start of the pandemic, we have seen the incomes for the bottom 10 per cent decile, increase by 20 per cent. We’ve seen that in the data as we’ve put in place programs like JobKeeper and the JobSeeker coronavirus supplement. Now I recognise…
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Quickly, if I can jump in if I can to qualify that. I accept that, but, as you note, that is sort of a welfare driven and impermanent increase.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
But the key as we saw pre-COVID to reducing welfare dependency was to get greater job creation and, in fact, before COVID, when the unemployment rate fell to 5.1 per cent in February, bearing in mind it’s 6.6 per cent today, welfare dependency fell to its lowest level in 30 years. We saw that the Productivity Commission did a report into inequality in Australia and talked about how there was improved living standards, that were in their words, evenly shared across every income decile. So, I understand there is a need to keep working on reducing inequality, but the key for us is to prevent that scarring of the labour market that you get after recessions and to get more people into jobs…
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Sure, but do you think the IMF has made the wrong call in saying entrenched inequality has been revealed by the pandemic. I mean, it was obvious to anyone sitting in this chair and listening to this radio station, that all the sudden we learned about those whose job insecurities was entrenched and who fell right through the net the moment anything happened in the economic environment. So, do you think the IMF has got it wrong?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
I think there is a different way to understand what the IMF is saying because Australia’s economic…
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
A different way to spin the IMF, is that what you’re saying?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
I am saying that the economic response from Australia was actually quite different to the rest of the world when we put in place an economy wide wage subsidy that was there for 3.6 million people at $1,500 a fortnight with JobKeeper and other countries didn’t do that…
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Of course, but that’s temporary. The most logical thing to do, really, looking at what the IMF is calling on governments to do is to put in place a permanent increase to JobSeeker. There would not be a business leader or a welfare sector group in the country who would oppose you. That must be something that you’re about to do, Treasurer.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
As you know, the elevated level of the JobSeeker payment goes to the end of March and we’ll have more to say one way or the other before then. But what I do note from the IMF report, importantly, is that they’ve upgraded their global economic growth forecasts and when it comes to countries like Spain, they’re talking about their economy contracting by 11 per cent in 2020, the UK 10 per cent, Italy and France 9 per cent. Even countries like Japan and Canada and Germany by more than 5 per cent. Whereas here in Australia, according to our last Treasury forecast at MYEFO, we’re going to contract by about 2.5 per cent in 2020. You can see how much better placed Australia is on the economic front than other countries around the world.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Just quickly and finally, if as Victoria’s most senior federal Liberal, you can’t stop long time Federal Member for Menzies, Kevin Andrews, from being unseated in that place by army veteran and barrister Keith Wolahan, he’s under pressure there, will that show that your power here is weak?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
In terms of the democratic processes of the Liberal Party. It’s the entitlement of anyone to challenge someone’s preselection.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Sure but you don’t want Kevin Andrews to go and you're working to keep him there. If you can’t keep him there will you be weak?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well again, they say that every time there’s a preselection.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
This is not a preselection this is unseating a sitting Member.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well there’s been plenty of preselections where we have been successful. What I would say is that Kevin Andrews has a very strong track record, but he’s also outlined to his electorate, and to his members, a five year plan for the future. He did see his primary vote, despite a very ferocious campaign from Get Up, increase by two per cent at the last election and he does play an important role chairing oversight committees on the NDIS and being heavily involved in the human rights and family law policy debates. It is the right of members to obviously challenge a sitting member, it was something I did myself, and Keith Wolahan, his opponent, is respected as a lawyer, a soldier and as a party member. So it’s not begrudging him, in saying I, the Prime Minister, former Prime Minister John Howard and many of my other colleagues have put pen to paper to support Kevin Andrews, and that vote is upcoming and it will be up to members to decide. But we’re very different to the Labor Party. They suspended their democratic processes, they’re not having preselections, the Liberal Party is.