VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
There’s lots to talk about this morning, and the federal Treasurer Josh Frydenberg joins you now. Treasurer, always a pleasure to have you on board. Good morning.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Good morning, Virginia.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
We’ll get to that new money for the creative sector in just a moment, but so many issues to get through with you this morning. We’ll try and be brisk. The big news today, can you explain to us the reasons why Linda Reynolds and Christian Porter are going to lose their portfolios?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, again, I’m not going to pre-empt any decisions that may or may not be taken by the Prime Minister. When you refer to potential reshuffles, I’ll leave that to him. But both Christian and Linda have obviously taken leave from the parliament for health reasons - different health reasons, I might add. Linda’s got a heart condition and Christian has taken leave to get his mental health state in order by his own admission. But I look forward to welcoming them back to the parliament.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
A New South Wales MP has immediately stepped aside from his portfolio after a rape allegation was made against him. That’s the right thing to do, isn’t it?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, again, in both cases there’s presumption of innocence. We’ve been very consistent when it comes to the Porter case to say that, you know, he is entitled to that presumption of innocence. The police…
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
My question went more to standing aside.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, again, he’s taken some leave and I’ll leave the future announcements by the Prime Minister to the Prime Minister, about members of his team.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Tasmania’s Premier has written to the Prime Minister urging him to consider accusations made by Tasmanian Speaker Sue Hickey that Liberal Senator Eric Abetz slut-shamed alleged rape victim Brittany Higgins. Will the Prime Minister consider that and, in your view, should he?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, the Prime Minister was asked this question in the parliament yesterday about Eric Abetz, and he referred to the statement that Eric Abetz has put out emphatically denying that those comments were made. That’s the government’s position. I’ll leave it to the Prime Minister to respond to Premier Gutwein, but I note that those comments were made under parliamentary privilege and they’ve been emphatically denied by Senator Abetz.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
My question was different - my question was whether considering everything that your government confronts right now and the state of affairs in Parliament House and a culture that you and I spoke about and using your words is “toxic and is a problem and has to be fixed”, given all of that, my question was whether the Prime Minister should take a breath, actually step back and consider this and consider these accusations?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, the Prime Minister considers all those accusations, but when it comes to allegations of criminal conduct, that’s best dealt with by the relevant authorities namely, the police. In the case of the allegation again Senator Abetz, he’s put out a statement completely denying those words were ever said by him.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
So Sue Hickey is not to be believed? Another woman is not to be believed?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Again, Sue Hickey has made her comments under parliamentary privilege. Eric Abetz has emphatically denied them. That is the situation that we find ourselves in. I can only go off the basis of what Senator Abetz has said. Of course any comments of such kind are absolutely horrendous, abhorrent, unacceptable, no matter who makes such comments. But, again, Senator Abetz has denied he’s ever said that.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
This gets us right back to the issue of how women are believed. I do - I am very interested this morning in your views, in your reflections. You’re the voice of the next generation of Liberal leadership. You’re the presumptive next Liberal leader.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
I wouldn’t get ahead of yourself there.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Do you really get how exhausted, how despairing, how angry so many Australian women and men are about the toxic culture in Canberra, about the fight that women have to be believed, about the cost it takes even to stand up like Sue Hickey even under parliamentary privilege and say all this? Do you think you really understand that today?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, I think, Virginia, it’s much bigger, the challenge we face as a community, than the events of recent weeks here in Canberra - namely, the allegations against Christian Porter, the comments of Linda Reynolds and, of course, the conduct of some unnamed staffers in the building. It’s a lot bigger than that. That is why this issue has resonated so powerfully across the community, because many people understandably have felt throughout their lives that they have been subject to sexual harassment and intimidation. That is unacceptable in a modern society such as Australia. That is why our government is taking action to get our house in order here in parliament, and that’s why Kate Jenkins as the Sex Discrimination Commissioner is overseeing a review. She addressed our party room about these serious issues earlier this week. We’ve already announced a number of initiatives and additional support services, a confidential helpline, counselling. All those support services and initiatives are now already underway and there will be more because here in the parliament we can’t be governing from behind; we have to be governing from in front. There is an important respect at work report that the government is working through its response to. Again, that is seeking to change attitudes in the workplace, empower people who have been subject to this unfair treatment as well as put more resources into education and awareness. Because it starts when people are very young. As you know, we’ve recently announced an investment in a significant information campaign designed to build greater awareness, particularly among younger people, about the need to respect women. Because when you have disrespect then that ultimately is a continuum towards violence. That is what we’ve got to try to stamp out across our community.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Indeed, but in saying that it’s a broader problem, I do wonder if you’re deflecting when you’ve got people like your old colleague Niki Savva saying today as she does in her column in The Australian that - and I’m quoting her here, “Liberal women have been chained to talking points to become the new Stepford Wives of politics.” I mean, that’s a stinging criticism from a very serious woman who I know we both respect. Are you not deflecting by saying that it’s a broader societal problem when clearly there is a problem that’s localized in your party?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, you’re touching on a range of different issues there.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
I guess I’m just asking you to stop and reflect on the Liberal Party itself and you’ve got so many voices of woman now.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Okay, well you didn’t say that earlier. If you’re talking about getting more women into parliament, if you’re talking about more women into leadership positions, I absolutely am committed to doing that. In fact, my first words to the party room as Deputy Leader I said that, and the Prime Minister is as well. His appointments of more women into the cabinet - now, of course, there’s a long way still to go - but of more women into the cabinet to get a record number of women in cabinet is evidence of that. Now, he’s opened the conversation about quotas.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Where do you stand on quotas?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, I think it’s a legitimate conversation. I think we have to look at all options because in terms of the House of Representatives, the Liberal Party only have 26 per cent of our members being women. Now 50 per cent of our new members that came in at the last election, whether it’s the House or the Senate were female, and that was a step forward. But we need to do more. When it comes to quotas, there’s obviously been a bit of pushback, even in myself when I was asked about this a few years ago. I pushed back on quotas. But when Sir Robert Menzies established the Liberal Party all those years ago with a lady called Dame Elizabeth Couchman, they actually put in quotas in the administrative wing of the Liberal Party. You have to have a female vice president and a male vice president of each branch and each division. So it was actually quotas at the organisational wing. We’ve never gone for quotas in the parliamentary wing.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
And now?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
That is now a conversation that the Prime Minister is leading on. Ultimately individual divisions within the party, Virginia, will have to take their own decisions about that, but the Prime Minister leading from the front has said this is a conversation we need to have and I’m…
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
I don’t think it’s fair to say he’s leading from the front. He’s been dragged kicking and screaming to it. That’s fair.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, in terms of quotas, our party - and I think it’s been a consistent position for many of us - have obviously focused on targets of getting 50 per cent of our membership of the parliamentary party being women by 2025, but we’re still short of that. We need to do more.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
More than 380,000 Victorians are still on JobKeeper.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Correct.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
I mentioned before, that ends Sunday. Treasury itself has been very blunt and says it expects many of those people will lose their jobs. How many will lose their jobs here, Treasurer, and what do you say to them about that?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, your referencing the comments by the Secretary of the Treasury, Steven Kennedy, yesterday to the parliament.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Yes.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
And it’s important that you’re listeners understand the full context of this statement, because he did say it is appropriate for the program to end. That was his exact quotes and he…
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Sure, but the reality is that people will lose jobs when the program ends?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Can I please finish? He did say that the program had adverse incentives in it, which prevents workers moving more freely across the economy if that program is continued. He also did say that the transition off JobKeeper would be manageable and that the unemployment rate would continue to trend down over time. Just because JobKeeper is ending, Virginia, doesn’t mean that our other economic support for Victorians, indeed for Australians, is ending. It’s not.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Do you have a sense of how many Victorians of those more than 380,000 will lose their jobs?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, the only forecasts that we have put out are from Treasury, which we were that unemployment rate would be at seven and a half per cent by the March quarter, it’s now at 5.8 per cent, so it has surprised on the upside. There’s been significant resilience. We’ll continue to provide updates to the labour market forecasts in the budget in just six weeks’ time. But from our perspective JobKeeper has to end. That’s Treasury’s advice. We agree with that. But we are putting in place other targeted support programs designed to help keep people in jobs, like the aviation and tourism package, like the $135 million we’re announcing today for the creative economy and the arts and entertainment sector.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
There’s one in five, I think, in the arts sector who are still out of a job. How many of those will be helped by the $135 million your announcing today?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Up to 90,000 jobs we’re advised will be supported by this particular program. It will support 230 specific projects and whether you’re a roadie, whether you’re a performer, whether you’re a front of house crew or, indeed, whether you’re one of the many businesses in that supply chain supporting the arts and entertainment sector, whether hospitality or accommodation or indeed transport and logistics, these grants have been very successful to date. We’ve put $75 million already into the RISE grants. This is another $125 million, and money has already gone to programs like the Adelaide Fringe Festival, the Byron Bay Blues Fest, the Sydney Lyric Theatre, as well as other grants across Victoria. So there are lots of particular initiatives that we’re taking in a very targeted way, Virginia, designed to smooth this transition at the end of JobKeeper.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Very quickly - I know you have to go - can you tell us why a Centrelink recipient is pursued by the full force of commonwealth law for an overpayment but Gerry Harvey can make a pandemic profit of 116 per cent and he gets to keep $22 million in JobKeeper? Why does one have to pay it back and the other doesn’t?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, I would welcome Gerry Harvey or any other major company that’s in the position to repay their JobKeeper payments back. I would welcome that. But we…
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
The Prime Minister says it’s up to them.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
But we passed the law at the time, which was designed and very successfully designed to get the money out the door to provide an economic lifeline to those who need it. I mean, you remember, Virginia, tens of thousands of our fellow Australians were lining up outside Centrelink…
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
No, no, I remember that, but that’s not the question. It’s the question about making money from the commonwealth. Do you want him to return it? Because the Prime Minister says it’s up to him.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, I can’t force him to do it. I’m not going to pass legislation…
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
You can force a Centrelink recipient to return it?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
In terms of this program, it was the law under which the applications were made. If the Labor Party is saying we should retrospectively now change the law to force Gerry Harvey and hundreds and thousands of other businesses listening to your program today to repay their JobKeeper payments, we’re not about to do that. Because it was designed to support…
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
No, I’m saying - it’s not from them, it’s coming from me. I’m saying that the law should be fair and that commonwealth money should be treated as preciously as it is.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
I agree with that. I think the JobKeeper program, wasn’t just fair; I think it was incredibly successful. The fact that more than 700,000 jobs according to the Reserve Bank of Australia and Treasury have been saved by JobKeeper is proof of that. Our whole motivation through JobKeeper, which was an economy-wide wage subsidy, was designed to keep the formal relationship between employers and employees.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Was it designed to make these profitable companies even more profitable?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
It was designed to ensure businesses survived COVID-19…
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
That’s not my question.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
And that’s what it’s done.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
All right. We’ll have to leave it there because I know you have to go. But I always appreciate you coming on, Treasurer. Thanks so much.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Happy to join you anytime.