GLEN BARTHOLOMEW:
The Federal Housing Minister is Julie Collins and she joins us now. Minister, good morning.
JULIE COLLINS:
Good morning to you, Glen, and to your listeners today.
BARTHOLOMEW:
How optimistic are you feeling about getting the support you need for this?
COLLINS:
Well, we obviously are having constructive conversations across the Parliament with senators and we'll continue to have those. What we know, of course, is that this bill is urgent in terms of vulnerable people in Australia today who need this bill to pass the Parliament. And what we're talking about here is $10 billion housing fund. It is the single biggest investment from the federal government, single biggest investment in social and affordable homes in more than a decade. It is obviously very substantial. It's obviously not the only thing we're doing in housing. But as you rightly point out, people that are on the front line dealing with vulnerable people every day, such as you know Homelessness Australia, National Shelter, community housing providers, all say that this bill needs to get done and we need to get it done quickly. And we know that the longer we delay, the less homes on the ground quickly. And that's what we are hoping to do is to get more homes on the ground more quickly so that more Australians have a safe, affordable place to call home.
BARTHOLOMEW:
We heard from your opposite number in the Greens, Max Chandler‑Mather on this program earlier in the piece. His leader, Adam Bandt says this plan does nothing for renters dealing with soaring rents, but also says it's basically gambling $10 billion on the stock market. What's your response to those comments?
COLLINS:
Well, obviously, other future funds and funds like this, they've had an average of around 9 per cent return each year. And what I would say to them is this is a very significant investment. The way to support, put downward pressure on rentals is, of course, to add supply, which is what we're doing. Of the 30,000 social and affordable homes, we're talking 20,000 social rentals and 10,000 affordable rental homes. What we've also obviously done in terms of our National Housing Accord is 10,000 affordable rentals to be matched by the states and territories, with another 10,000. Obviously, the levers in terms of most of the downward pressure on rentals sits with states and territories. And you've seen that today with some of the stuff that the Queensland Government is announcing. What we can do as a federal government really is add to supply, which is what we want to do with our Housing Australia Future Fund.
BARTHOLOMEW:
You talk about 9 per cent returns for such investment funds, but I think the phrase is past performance is no guarantee of future returns. Can you guarantee you'll have the funding you need?
COLLINS:
Well, what we're talking about here is a $10 billion fund. What we're talking about is returns every year. And as I've said, what we are also doing is, with our National Housing Accord, is investing additional money. We've made up to $575 million available immediately. We also, of course, have just announced last week some additional homelessness money as part of the National Housing and Homelessness Agreement, one‑year extension for states and territories. That's $1.7 billion for just one year of funding to the states and territories to help with homelessness services and add to housing supply. So the Commonwealth really is stepping up to the plate for the first time in a long time. And what I would say is that what we're talking about with the $10 billion fund is 30,000 homes, 4000 of which are for women and children fleeing family and domestic violence, and for older women at risk of homelessness. We're talking about $200 million for repair and maintenance and improvement, in Indigenous communities' remote housing. We're talking about $30 million for housing and services for veterans who are at risk of homelessness, and $100 million for crisis and transitional accommodation for women and children impacted by family violence. I mean, these are substantial investments coming from a federal government. What we need to do is get this legislation dealt with and get dealt with quickly. So I would say to the crossbenchers, what we need to do is to get it done and get it done quickly so that we do not delay getting this funding on the ground for people that need it most.
BARTHOLOMEW:
The Greens have their concerns, but so does the Jacqui Lambie Network. The Tasmanian Senator's saying, listen, they want a guarantee that some of these housing projects are going to go where they're desperately needed in Tasmania. They've suggested a certain percentage or figure that needs to go there to get their support. How much room is there to negotiate on this?
COLLINS:
Well, we obviously are negotiating in good faith. What we need to do is make sure that funding from the Housing Australia Future Fund benefits all Australians, those Australians that need it most, no matter where they live. What we are doing with the bill, of course, is making sure that people, whether they be in urban, remote or regional Australia, get reasonable access to the housing from the Housing Australia Future Fund. What we want to do is ensure that we get fair distribution right across the country in each state and territory, and also on the basis of needs. So those areas that have a more acute problem obviously be prioritised in terms of funding.
BARTHOLOMEW:
Max Chandler‑Mather told this program that he wanted to see about $5 billion spent each year on this project. He'd suggest there's a whole bunch of community and electorate support. If you were to come forward and say, "Listen, this is a big issue, we're willing to deal with it. Here's the money we're going to spend on this. We know the budget is tight", but he pointed out there's been a large sum spent on defence in recent times. Is he right in thinking the public would support a bigger move, a bigger investment on this space, in this space?
COLLINS:
Well, what I would say is that we're already making significant investments. As I've outlined, we've made $575 million available immediately. We're already seeing construction on the ground right across Australia from us unlocking that funding immediately, we did that out of the Jobs and Skills summit. In our first Budget, we added an additional $350 million for another 10,000 affordable homes to be matched by states and territories. We, of course, are also about to negotiate an additional housing and homelessness agreement with the states and territories. We've just given them a one year extension, which is $1.7 billion for one year of funding to states and territories. And all of that is obviously on top of the Housing Australia Future Fund and the returns from that fund. We are absolutely, as a federal government, doing our share and we are lifting from where the former government was substantially. The $10 billion is the most significant investment by a federal government in social and affordable housing in more than a decade. It is very significant. And what I would say to the Greens and to other crossbenchers in the Senate is that vulnerable people cannot afford for this to delay. If their response is it's our way or zero, I mean, that is just unacceptable when you've got vulnerable people on the ground who need housing today.
BARTHOLOMEW:
How soon would the first houses be built under this plan if it was approved?
COLLINS:
Well, as I said, because we've unlocked the $575 million straight away, we already have houses on the ground under construction. What we want to do is get this fund set up as quickly as we can and get the returns as quickly as we can so we can get those houses on the ground.
BARTHOLOMEW:
All right.
COLLINS:
We cannot afford to continue to delay it.
BARTHOLOMEW:
Domestic violence refugees are at capacity, particularly in Queensland. You say this fund would have immediate benefit for those in crisis or transitional housing?
COLLINS:
Well, as soon as we get the returns, we want to invest them in those areas that need the most as a matter of urgency. As I said, we're talking about, in the first five years, an additional $100 million for transitional accommodation, emergency accommodation for women and children fleeing family violence. We want to get homes on the ground as quickly as we can. We can only do that if we get this bill through the Parliament, get the returns coming.
BARTHOLOMEW:
The Greens also said, as I said earlier, that they want some action for the many people doing it tough in the very difficult renting market, rental market around Australia right now. There are some calls for the rent controls. We spoke earlier on the programme to Dr Michael Fotheringham from the Australian Housing and Urban Research Institute. He's attending that Queensland Government roundtable on housing today.
MICHAEL FOTHERINGHAM:
I think the sort of control on the frequency and the size of rent increases is where it's at. I think longer term freezes, the sort of rent control, long term freezes that we see in places like New York, where rent controlled apartments are still set up prices based on post war rent settings, is not practical for the small scale, investor based market we have here. But some certainty around the frequency and the size of rent increases does make some sense.
BARTHOLOMEW:
So welcoming that move that Queensland's are looking at, as Victoria has already implemented, to limit the amount of times that rents can be increased each year, limiting them to once, perhaps. Do you support that sort of move? And is there any scope the federal government could look at, something more broad like rental price controls?
COLLINS:
Well, there obviously, and I think that what you've just heard from Michael Fotheringham and what you've seen, the actions from the Queensland Government actually shows that it is the states and territories that have those levers available to them. They're not levers that the federal government has available to us. The levers that we have available to us are to help with supply of housing. And that is what we're trying to do with our Housing Australia Future Fund. We want to do it by having more affordable rentals on the ground and add to supply. And that is absolutely what we want to do with our fund.
BARTHOLOMEW:
I think Finland's had rent controls since the 1990s. You're saying it's certainly not on the national agenda for you?
COLLINS:
What I'm saying is that constitutionally, that sits with states and territories. It's not something that we have purview over. The states and territories have all the levers available to them. What I can do is obviously, is meet regularly with states and territory Ministers and talk about a whole range of issues. What I can do with them is negotiate another Housing and Homelessness Agreement from 1 July 2024. And obviously, I'm having those regular meetings, the former government didn't have one meeting for the whole five years of that agreement. What I want to see is us learn from each state and territory and jurisdiction about what they're doing. And that's obviously as part of the reforms, we've also got Supply and Affordability Council that will look at the evidence around some of those interventions some of the states and territories are doing to see whether or not they work and what impact they're having so that other states and territories can learn from that and perhaps implement similar reforms. What we need to do is we need to make sure we've got the evidence and the data about what actually works and what impact they're having on supply and affordability.
BARTHOLOMEW:
And finally, Minister, only a couple of days of Parliament to go in this sitting. What happens if this bill doesn't get passed before the budget session in May?
COLLINS:
Well, we'll obviously continue to have discussions in good faith, knowing that vulnerable people out there need us to get this through as quickly as we can. We've got three critical bills in the Senate that we're working our way through, and I look forward to continuing those discussions with the crossbenchers.
BARTHOLOMEW:
We look forward to hearing updates on the progress thereof. Julie Collins, thanks very much for joining us this morning. The Federal Housing Minister still in negotiations with the cross bench to try and get that federal government housing policy through.