LAURA JAYES:
Let’s go live now to the Minister for Small Business, Julie Collins. Julie Collins, we just heard there, there’s some vague detail around what this new agreement would look like. Why would employees in small businesses necessarily be better off, given what we’ve heard?
JULIE COLLINS:
Well, this is a really significant agreement between the ACTU and COSBOA, or the Council of Small Businesses. What they’re saying is that the bargaining system that was developed about 30 years ago is no longer fit for small businesses in Australia, and they want to work on what does a new system look like together, so that is a very significant. What we’re talking about, and what they’re talking about really, is about lifting productivity and lifting wages. What we want is small businesses to grow and prosper, so that they can employ more Australians and that Australians are better paid.
JAYES:
Sure, but we’ve heard about the lack of detail there. Isn’t there some danger as well here, depending on the detail, that it could be a big celebration of mediocrity, to put it crudely?
COLLINS:
What we want to do obviously is see the detail of what exactly is worked out in the coming days and weeks with COSBOA and the ACTU and the unions, about what does this look like. And Minister Burke will be able to have a look at what is the detail, and we’ll obviously want to make sure that workers have the same protections. But we also want small businesses to thrive, and grow the economy, and to grow jobs.
JAYES:
Is there a danger here that this gives more power to the unions when they only – union membership has been declining for some years. I think it is, still only covers about 20 per cent of the workforce.
COLLINS:
This is a significant agreement. You’re talking about 2.2 million businesses that may be involved. This is about saying that the current system is complicated in terms of small businesses. Small businesses are saying, ‘we want to work within the system, we want to work with workers' representatives’ and I think that is a good thing. I think that workers who are working in small businesses today will be pleased that both the Council of Small Businesses of Australia and indeed the unions, the workers’ representatives, are working together. What we’re talking about, what the Jobs and Skills Summit is all about is about bringing people together, having conversations and trying to get agreement on a way forward. I think what the country is sick of is the disagreements and the arguments, and they want people coming together to try and solve some the intractable problems, some of the issues. If we want to go forward as a nation, if we want to deal with a trillion dollars of debt, we’re going to have to grow the pie, and the way to do that is everybody working together heading in the same direction.
JAYES:
Small businesses have done it really tough, as you know, over the past couple of years as well. They’re still getting back on their feet after COVID. We’re talking about years of lost revenue here. Is there a danger in this agreement where small businesses are disadvantaged? It takes out that kind of personal relationship they have with their employees.
COLLINS:
I don’t think that that’s the case at all. I think that this is actually about COSBOA saying, ‘we want to be at the table. We want to have discussions. We, too, want small businesses to grow.’ There’s no doubt that small businesses over the last few years have had a tough time, but they’ve also shown how resilient they are, and they’re dealing with a series of issues around skills shortages, workforce shortages, supply chain issues. What they want to do is work in terms of workers and increasing productivity and growing their businesses, and we want to work with them and so do the workers’ representatives, the unions.
JAYES:
Sure, do you understand the anxiety with this lack of detail that some small businesses have expressed? They’re looking back to the 1970, where there was so many lost days of productivity to strike action. I mean, can you see, does this new agreement allow a scenario where there could be strikes across the country in small business sectors, whether it be childcare or agribusiness?
COLLINS:
Look, I don’t think that’s going to be the case, Laura. I can’t imagine COSBOA and small businesses, and indeed the workers, signing up to agreements that are going to make the country worse off. What we all want to do is see the country be a better place. We want to see workers actually achieve some of the productivity gains. We want to see as the pie grows, workers getting some of the benefits of that, as well as the businesses. I think that that’s what it’s all about. What this agreement is about two organisations saying, ‘we agree that some things aren’t working’. What we want to do is sit down and nut out the detail on that, and as a government, what we’re saying is ‘well once you’ve agreed, we’ll have a look at what the detail is’.
JAYES:
Okay, one final question before I let you go. The COVID isolation rules are going to be reviewed by National Cabinet on Wednesday. Should the pandemic leave disaster payment, which has currently been extended to 30th September, also be reviewed? This is a $750 payment that pays close contacts of COVID patients, when states don’t actually require close contacts to isolate anymore.
COLLINS:
We obviously made the decision to extend it last time, Laura, because of the peak of Omicron and the number of staff who were having to take leave under isolation rules. If isolation rules change, and also we know of course that we’ve now hit the peak of the Omicron wave and things are improving around the country – that’s not to say everything is going swimmingly. We do know that there are still people out there every day who are getting that COVID diagnosis. But obviously, we’ll have a look at that in the light of any decisions that are made on health advice. We’re going to take health advice, as we have and we’ve always said all the way along that’s what we should be doing. And once we’ve got that health advice, we’ll make other decisions.
JAYES:
Julie Collins, live from Tasmania. Thanks so much for talking to us.
COLLINS:
Thanks, Laura.