Kieran Gilbert:
Welcome back to the program. Earlier in the day, we heard from the Prime Minister, who warned that the Victorian lockdown will see a further hit to the national economy of up to $12 billion. My colleague, Andrew Clennell, spoke to the Assistant Treasurer, Michael Sukkar.
Minister Sukkar:
Yeah it is really sobering. I think everybody knew, Andrew, that going into stage four lockdowns, as was determined by the State Government here, was going to have a significant economic impact. Obviously, the PM has also outlined that it’s going to have a real cost of up to $10 billion, $6 to $7 billion of that will be right here in Victoria and the remainder that effects confidence and supply chains throughout the country. But you’re right, the particularly sobering statistic there is the increase in people who are unemployed and it’s a really heartbreaking time for Victorians.
Andrew Clennell:
Are you concerned about any forms of businesses that have been lockdown? Do you think that the Victorian Government’s got it right or, as has been flagged by the PM, there are some businesses like distribution centres, maybe construction, that could have been allowed to remain open while the state is locked down or the city is locked down?
Minister Sukkar:
Well, Andrew, I’m not a commentator. There’s still a lot of elements to the lockdown that are not entirely clear to me, I’ll be perfectly honest. There seems to be a lot of confusion in the business community as well as to the extent to which they are able to continue operating. So ultimately, the decision to move into stage four lockdown, the intricate decisions on what can remain operational, to a degree, and what has to completely close, are wholly decisions of the State Government. I’m not going to commentate on those. They are a sad consequence of where we find ourselves here in Victoria. Seven out of eight states in Australia have effectively no coronavirus. Victoria is sadly an outlier there and the devastating consequences of the hotel quarantine debacle, I think, are now being felt by all Victorians and particularly those businesses and employees who are either closing or losing their jobs. Confusion to some degree reigns and I’m sure that the State Government is working very hard to try and clarify that for businesses.
Andrew Clennell:
What feedback do you get from people in your electorate about the performance of Daniel Andrews’ Government on hotel quarantine and the performance of the State Government on the crisis in general?
Minister Sukkar:
Well, Andrew, you get a cross-section of feedback. I think that the feedback at the moment is deep regret and disappointment that Victorian finds itself in this extraordinarily tough position. As I said, I think most Victorians understand that it’s not just bad luck that has led to Victoria being the only state in Australia to be in this position. Clearly, the hotel quarantine catastrophe has led us to this point and they’re pretty keen to get answers on that. But they’re also keen to do their part to make sure that as Victorians, that they’re doing everything possible that they can, to help us get out of this as quickly as possible.
Andrew Clennell:
Well you’ve mentioned the quarantine debacle a couple of times. Are you personally angry about that and have you found it hard to get your head around how that has occurred?
Minister Sukkar:
Well Andrew, my anger or otherwise is largely irrelevant here. I think that we’ve got to deal in facts and again, the statistics speak for themselves. When you’ve got Victoria that has overwhelmingly nearly every single coronavirus case in this country and you accept that it can’t just be bad luck that Victoria is the only state that is in this position, I think naturally you ask ‘what have been the failures, what have been the local decision-making issues that have led us to this position’. I’m frustrated, my heart brakes for people that I have calling my office on a daily basis explaining to me that businesses that they have spent decades building up, are now probably gone. They worked hard to push through and survive that first period of lockdown and this will do them.
Andrew Clennell:
When you talk about the effect on businesses and jobs and on ordinary people effected by that, the Federal Government has been pretty insistent that JobKeeper is national and that whatever solutions are brought into place because of the Victorian situation, will be done on a national basis and will apply everywhere. Does that really make sense? It’s quite clear that Western Australia and South Australia for example, are in a different place to Victoria, a far different place. Shouldn’t there be extra supports in place for Victorians?
Minister Sukkar:
Well the first thing I’d say is that, yes, there are extra supports in place. The Prime Minister has announced a disaster payment for people that have to self-isolate here in Victoria and they don’t have access to other forms of income and we’re able to do that as part of the State Government here declaring a State of Disaster. But secondly, on our broader programs, yes, they operate nationally, and they operate uniformly, Andrew, but at the end of the day, the criteria is determined by need. As you saw in the economic update outlined by the Treasurer and the Finance Minister, Treasury estimates are that more than half of JobKeeper applicants moving forward after September, will be here in Victoria. So, that just shows that Victoria, which is a quarter of the country, is going to end up, in our estimation, being more than half of the JobKeeper program. It shows that you design national programs, you set the criteria, and the places of relatively higher need, will access that program more and the places with relatively lower need will access it less. I think that’s how all good policy is put in place. So the JobKeeper program, I think is going to end up supporting, sadly from my perspective, more Victorians because we’re going to be in a tougher economic position because of these stage four restrictions as a result of the hotel quarantine issues but that national profile, I think is important.
Andrew Clennell:
But you could have a situation where you’ve got a law firm in WA, 30 per cent down on business, getting the same support as a Victorian business that’s 90 per cent down on business. Surely there’s room for some adjustment here because it’s just chalk and cheese between Victoria and the other states?
Minister Sukkar:
Well, Andrew, those sorts of comparisons apply with any program. Any program, regardless of the criteria, you’ll have some people who will apply and who are eligible because they just meet the criteria and others who are well and truly in the criteria. So, I don’t think that that’s a reason that supports your argument. The point is that we’ve got a program, the biggest program ever put in place by a Federal Government of its kind, that’s going to end up supporting, on a global basis, more Victorians than people in any other state or territory. That makes sense because Victoria is now in a worse economic position because of the issues we find ourselves in. I think that demonstrates quite clearly, Andrew, that the program, the JobKeeper program and indeed any program that is a demand-driven one of this kind, is absolutely designed the way it should and absolutely operating the way that it should. So, I think that the numbers support the contention that you have a national policy and that it will end up helping the areas that need it more and the areas that are doing better will draw on it less.
Andrew Clennell:
All right will let me ask about HomeBuilder. There was evidence before the Covid parliamentary committee last week that just 124 grant applications have been received so far in Tasmania and South Australia. What’s been the hold-up in getting these $25,000 grants out the door? Are you surprised or not content with the fact that more money is not out there, more stimulus isn’t out there so far?
Minister Sukkar:
Well no, in a program like this, it’s wrong to look at those sorts of statistics because the payments are paid on milestones. So, depending on a state or territory, it’s paid when the first payments are made in relation to the new build or in some states and territories, it’s paid when you are on the title or when you finish the project. So, we need to look at the actual applications and payments as the year progresses because you don’t build a house in a matter of weeks and these sorts of payments get paid on milestones. What we have seen – and these aren’t my statistics, these are from the Housing Industry Association and the Master Builders Association – the first month after HomeBuilder was announced, there was a 77 per cent increase in new home sales. What that means, Andrew, is more tradies on building sites, more manufacturing of building supplies – whether that be the timber-mill workers who make the frames and trusses or the manufacturing workers who make the bricks and the tiles and the glass. A 77 per cent increase – we’re expecting that to continues to grow when the statistics for the next month are out. This program applies from the 4th of June and the reason that it’s driven so much more in extra sales, put aside application processes, if you qualify, you will get a grant. So if you’ve signed a contract to buy a home after 4 June and you qualify, you will get the grant irrespective of when the state and territory processes the applications and as a purchaser, Andrew, you’re only concerned about getting that payment when you’re entitled to it which is often after you’ve commenced work or in some states and territories, when you’ve actually finished the build.
Andrew Clennell:
Is it true that New South Wales and Victoria have not even signed up yet?
Minister Sukkar:
No, no, New South Wales and Victoria have signed up and they will be, very shortly, launching their portals which will be talking the applications. But again, this grant is not dependent on the application. The application formalises your entitlement to the grant. The grant that you receive, is determined by the policy that we announced on 4 June. Victoria and New South Wales, I think, I don’t want to steal their thunder but in a matter of days, will launch their portals. Every other state and territory has already got their application processes going but the grant doesn’t depend in itself, on the application process, the application just formalises your entitlement to the funding.
Andrew Clennell:
It seems inevitable now that you’ll extend it past December 31, especially given the situation in Victoria. Do you think it’s fair that we’ll see that in the budget?
Minister Sukkar:
I wouldn’t agree with you there, Andrew. Yes, this has been a great program and it’s been applauded by the industry and it’s keeping hundreds of thousands of people in jobs. Obviously, the more successful that a program is, the more that people request that it be extended and there’s no doubt that a lot of the industry have requested to me that it be extended on the basis that it’s been so effective for them. But we’ll wait and see what it’s doing. We have to be careful with all of these policies that they achieve our objectives and the objective of this program was to keep hundreds of thousands of people in a job in the second half of this year when the full impacts of Covid-19 were hitting the housing market. So, we’ll keep an eye on it. I think we’ll maintain full flexibility as we do with all of our programs but I don’t think that it’s fair to categorise it as that this will certainly or will definitely be extended but there’s no doubt that the scheme has been so successful, that there’s a lot of advocacy coming to the Government asking for us to extend it because it has been so good for the industry.
Andrew Clennell:
And the First Home Loan Deposit Scheme, a lot of speculation about that being extended?
Minister Sukkar:
Yeah, there has been. I think there’s been speculation about that from the start but again, we’ll see how that’s going. I think that clearly, there’s been a resurgence in new home buyers. There’s obviously been a resurgence in new first home buyers purchasing new homes with the help of HomeBuilder. Again, we’ll just maintain full flexibility, keep an eye on the program, it has been a great success and again for that reason, a lot of people are asking for the First Home Loan Deposit Scheme to be expanded but we’ll make these judgements in a calm and sober way, taking into account a full suite of factors with respect to the housing market.
Andrew Clennell:
Finally, Mr Sukkar, I want to ask, as you sit there in Victoria with lockdown on, hearing from these distressed businesses and constituents, what’s your biggest fear from here on in?
Minister Sukkar:
My biggest fear is that the permanent damage that is done to businesses, to people’s livelihoods, to children’s education. There are sadly going to be children here in Victoria, and I’ve had one parent say to me that effectively they feel like their children have lost a year of education in a conventional sense. So, I fear about the long lasting impacts of these things and that is why the Morrison Government is throwing the absolute kitchen sink at trying to help Victoria get itself out of the problems that have been created by the hotel quarantine failures. The sooner that we’re able to help Victoria out of that, the less likely that that permanent damage will be there. So we’re doing everything that we possibly can but that fear of the permanent damage I think is the fear being felt by so many Victorians, and indeed Australians, who I know are really cheering us on and hoping that we can get on top of this.