Andrew Clennell:
Michael Sukkar, thanks for joining us. You’ve sent yourself for investigation to the Department of Finance over allegations that you were involved in having electorate officers involved in branch recruitment and other Liberal Party activity during work hours. What’s your response to those allegations?
Minister Sukkar:
Well, Andrew, obviously I’ve repeatedly rejected the allegations and to put it beyond any doubt, I referred the matter to the Secretary of the Department of Finance, to review all of the matters that were put forward and it’s now with the Department, they’re conducting the review and I’ll leave them to do that work to put it beyond doubt.
Andrew Clennell:
Well a lot of the reporting on this has focussed on two words from you. So we’ve got Marcus Bastiaan, who is reported to have penned a memo which sets out a plan to build a faction with you inside Kevin Andrews’ office and have people spending three hours per day on party-political activity, it is alleged. You’re reported to have responded to this memo by saying, ‘good summary’. Do you recall saying that, and what did it mean?
Minister Sukkar:
Well, Andrew, as I said, I haven’t authorised the misuse of electorate office staff. I’m very confident of that position which is why I’ve referred it to the Department to undertake an independent review. They’re undertaking that review now and I’m sure that that review will put these allegations beyond doubt. They’re doing their work and we’re co-operating with the Department and that’s where it is at, at the moment.
Andrew Clennell:
Well let me just ask you about a couple of the allegations of nepotism and how you feel about being attacked on this front. You’ve been accused over the fact that your brother was employed in Kevin Andrews’ office and a close friend, Matt Pham, was employed in your office and Marcus Bastiaan’s wife, in your office. Were those appointments all above board?
Minister Sukkar:
Look again, Andrew, all of the staffing decisions that have been made by me are appropriate. Again, that’s why I’ve referred it to the Secretary of the Department of Finance. They’re undertaking their review and we’re working with them and I’m very confident of that review process.
Andrew Clennell:
Let me ask, were the Department of Finance to find against you, would you have to then resign from the Ministry?
Minister Sukkar:
Andrew, as I said, the review is being undertaken as we speak. I’m very confident of the outcome of the review, we’re providing all of the information that the Department has requested and we will continue to work with them. I’m very confident of the position and the work that has been undertaken by all of my staff, all of the time and again, these are matters ultimately for the Department to undertake and that is what they’re doing at the moment.
Andrew Clennell:
How do you feel about Marcus Bastiaan’s resignation from the Liberal Party over this?
Minister Sukkar:
Well, look, Andrew, in the end, matters around individual party members and their status within the party is a matter for them and the Victorian Division. Obviously we have thousands and thousands of members of the party, we are a volunteer-driven organisation and that’s the strength of the Liberal Party. We of course have, again, thousands of people who work day and night, not for their own benefit but for the benefit of the country and to ensure that their values and beliefs are reflected in public policy. They’re the people that I work with, closely, on a daily basis, indeed I think that all Members of Parliament do. As for individuals and their own conduct, they have to account for their own conduct, and they have, and I understand that the Victorian Division is continuing to look at a range of matters and they should do that work themselves but that is ultimately a matter for the administrative wing of the party, not for the parliamentary wing of which I am a part.
Andrew Clennell:
Well a lot of the focus seems to have been around what is called ‘branch stacking’ but could also be called branch recruitment. Do you admit that you’ve been involved in some of that, you’ve been trying to bring people into the Liberal Party, and I guess that you’d defend that?
Minister Sukkar:
Well, Andrew, I wouldn’t dwell on it for too long. I mean, ultimately, again, we’re a volunteer organisation. Our ability to connect with individuals, with community groups, indeed our ability to be able to campaign effectively, relies on people taking time out of their lives, in a voluntary capacity, to join a party and to be involved. My message to all Australians has been, of course, to get involved in politics and no doubt I focus on those who shares the values of the Liberal Party. I think that it’s incumbent upon all Liberals to try their best to build our volunteer base, to build the base of people who support our values. Of course I have done that and I think that every Member of Parliament has done it but ultimately, right now, in the middle of a pandemic and for many, many months, I’ve been focussed on the issues that affect every day Australians – their livelihoods, their jobs, their ability to feed their families in many cases – and that’s what has been my overwhelming focus certainly this year, but indeed my entire time in the Ministry.
Andrew Clennell:
It looks like you’ve been ratted on by a former staffer. How do you feel about that and how do you feel about the Victorian laws which allow you to be secretly recorded without your permission?
Minister Sukkar:
Look, Andrew, I’m not going to run a commentary on these sorts of matters. Obviously, we’d all like private conversation to remain private but we’ve also got to be realistic. In 2020, Andrew, most people are walking around with a recording device in their pocket being a phone and that’s the reality of life. I think that just means that we have to be true to ourselves privately and publicly, act respectfully privately and publicly, and there’s really no point in whinging about these sorts of things. Of course we would like – all of us – private confidences, private conversations to remain that way but that’s the reality of the world that we live in today.
Andrew Clennell:
Okay well let me ask about the Victorian lockdown roadmap now. The PM obviously has made clear that in his view, the plan isn’t a road out fast enough. What’s your view of it and what would sticking to that roadmap mean for the Victorian and national economy?
Minister Sukkar:
There’s no doubt that the economic devastation of the Victorian second wave has been phenomenal and will continue to be. I think that – as the PM said yesterday – we would be very hopeful that this is worst-case scenario roadmap and that, indeed, we’re able to meet the hurdles and in many cases, again as the PM said, these hurdles are very high, particularly if you look at where perhaps New South Wales would be now as far as lockdowns if they applied similar tests. So there’s no doubt that the economic devastation on Victoria that of course has an impact nationally, but primarily has a huge impact on Victorians and is going to be phenomenally devastating. That’s our concern as an economic team, we’re providing huge amounts of support, and we’ve extended JobKeeper which will be overwhelmingly utilised by Victorians. More Victorians, we expect, will use JobKeeper post-September, than ever other state and territory combined so we are providing that support. Again, the PM I think has made the self-evident point that the Victorian roadmap, which is a Victorian State Government roadmap, we will want to see what additional support they’re proposing to put in place for the businesses and the individuals who are going to be completely devastated by what is a very protracted lockdown.
Andrew Clennell:
What was your personal reaction when you saw the target that they’re setting?
Minister Sukkar:
Andrew, I think again that the bar seems to be very high. I’m a Victorian, my family and my extended family and all of my friends here in Victoria are living through this as are millions of Victorians and I’d be lying if I said that there wasn’t a pang of disappointment when I saw what was proposed. But in the end, we need to do everything that we can to support the Victorian State Government to exceed all of the targets in this roadmap to ensure that it is a worse-case scenario. We’ll do everything that we possibly can, we’re providing every form of support – whether it’s ADF support, other technical support – and we’ve done that the entire way through because, right now, this is a devastating situation for so many livelihoods and of course the level of despair that I think has entered the community is quite troubling. That’s why I applaud that the Treasurer, who has been speaking about a sense of hope, a sense of optimism and a realistic roadmap out of these levels of restrictions being so important for the psyche of Victorians.
Andrew Clennell:
Do you believe that the Victorian contact tracing system, the public health system, is up to scratch when it comes to preventing further outbreaks once you get out of this?
Minister Sukkar:
My advice is that the gold-standard on contact tracing has certainly been New South Wales. They have shown that through vigorous, well-resourced, well-organised contact tracing, that you can get on top of clusters, ring-fence them and ensure a level of normal life can go on around that. I think it’s probably uncontroversial to say that that hasn’t been the case here in Victoria although I hope that that is improving. So between the issues that have emanated from hotel quarantine mismanagement, I think being behind the eight-ball on contact tracing has no doubt meant that Victoria is in this parlous position, certainly when you compare it to the other seven states and territories around the country. It’s not just an accident that Victoria is in this position.
Andrew Clennell:
On this contact tracing issue, I guess that we were told by the PM that this COVID-safe app would be the way out etc. Yet when your phone is locked, it doesn’t work, it hasn’t been used that much. Is that a disappointment?
Minister Sukkar:
I don’t think that anyone every suggested that the COVID-safe app was a silver bullet. I know that I didn’t when I was communicating with my electorate or more broadly. I think that…interrupted.
Andrew Clennell:
Well there have been advertisements about it?
Minister Sukkar:
I think that the evidence is clear though, Andrew, that it has been a useful tool and that’s been confirmed by New South Wales contact tracing teams. I know that the Victorian contact tracing teams have started to use it which, I think, confirms that it’s a tool in the toolkit and that it is…interrupted.
Andrew Clennell:
But, Mr Sukkar, it isn’t as effective as we were promised, is it?
Minister Sukkar:
Well that’s my exact point though, Andrew. I don’t think that you were promised that it was a silver bullet at all. You were promised, and Australians were promised, that it was a tool in the toolkit to assist with contact tracing and I think that the evidence is clear that it absolutely is a tool that has provided and has assisted in contact tracing. That makes a different but there is so much more to the job of contact tracing and let’s remember that about 40 per cent of devices that could download this app, have downloaded it so of course that’s not complete coverage around the whole country. But I tell you what, it’s a tool that our contact tracing teams would rather have than not have, so on that basis alone, it’s a worthwhile enterprise.
Andrew Clennell:
All right, well onto the budget. The PM has made it clear that the budget is going to be about lower taxes. It’s pretty clear now that we’ll see income tax cuts brought forward. Would that be both elements of the package and what would that do for the economy?
Minister Sukkar:
Well, Andrew, all of those matters will be announced by the Treasurer on budget night. In the end, this budget will be about trying to encourage as many Australians, as many businesses as possible, to invest and to create jobs. That is what this budget unquestionably has to be about and it will be about. How do we encourage businesses, Australian businesses – large, small, medium enterprises – to invest, to take risks, to show that entrepreneurialism which, in the end, employs fellow Australians and creates wealth and prosperity for everyday Australians. That’s what this budget will be primarily about. There are a whole lot of things that we can do, we believe, to try and assist in that process. It will all be announced on budget night but there will be a singular focus on jobs and I think that that’s what Australians expect of us.
Andrew Clennell:
So will you have another go at company tax cuts? It’s always hard to get that one through the Senate.
Minister Sukkar:
Andrew, there’ll be a suite of measures that we put in place and reforms that we put in place, to encourage businesses and individuals and households to have that confidence to invest, that confidence to make decisions in their own best interests, which we know have flow-on effects throughout the economy that will mean that more Australians are employed, more Australians are able to fulfil all of their dreams and…interrupted.
Andrew Clennell:
Is that a ‘yes’? Is that a ‘yes’ about company tax cuts?
Minister Sukkar:
No, Andrew, you will see the contents of the budget on budget night and I appreciate these sorts of questions that you have to ask but from my perspective, this will be a jobs budget and I think that is what Australians would be hopeful for and would expect from a Morrison Government particularly.
Andrew Clennell:
All right well what about on infrastructure spending. There’s been a bit of talk about this or is it the Federal Government’s view that the states should carry the load there? You’ve got $100 billion over ten years, could you massively expand that or are you calling on the states to do that?
Minister Sukkar:
Well we’ve leant very heaving into infrastructure. If you look at it historically, the Federal Government at the moment – as you rightly point out – $100 billion over ten years is a significant investment from the Federal Government into infrastructure projects throughout the country. Obviously we’ve been focussed on, even as early as late last year or as recently as late last year, we were very focussed on bringing forward as many of those infrastructure projects as possible because the long lead times of infrastructure projects often mean that you don’t get the shovels in the ground at the time that you need. I think that we’re working very hard to ensure that this time, in this budget and this year, that we’ve got a huge pipeline of projects that we’re continuing to progress with Federal Government support which obviously underpins so much economic activity. So, I think that we’ve leant so heavily into infrastructure that a real focus on getting those projects shovel-ready and started as soon as possible, should be the absolute focus but I know that Alan Tudge and the Deputy Prime Minister, Michael McCormack, are always looking at opportunities for the Federal Government to support even bigger and better infrastructure projects and I am sure that that’s still the case.
Andrew Clennell:
Might we see an extension of HomeBuilder in there?
Minister Sukkar:
HomeBuilder has been extraordinarily successful. It is supporting tradie’s jobs throughout the supply chain. In the month after HomeBuilder was announced, we saw a 77 per cent increase in new home sales and new home sales basically means jobs. It means tradies onsite, it means timber mill workers building the frames and trusses, the manufacturing workers making the bricks and the glass and the tiles. It has certainly underpinned a huge amount of activity in the residential construction sector. In the context of it being a very successful program, we will see how it goes for the rest of this year and that will be an assessment that we’ll then.
Andrew Clennell:
And just finally, Mr Sukkar, we’ve had a situation this morning where a couple of Australian journalists have left China in a hurry, from the ABC and the Financial Review, clearly, on Australian Government advice, it has been reported. Clearly tensions are at a reasonable level with China at the moment. Do you have concerns about the knock-on effect of that on the Australian economy, those tensions?
Minister Sukkar:
We have deep trading ties with China and it would be glib or foolish for anybody to say that you can completely divorce our diplomatic relationship from our trading relationship but we do have very deep trading ties. Even in recent times, if you look at our mineral resources exports to China that have held up phenomenally, indicates that there is a robust element to our relationship. But of course, all of these sorts of issues that I would broadly put in the more diplomatic side of our relationship, of course they are things that we take into account but ultimately, we have goods that China wants to buy and China has goods that we want to buy and, in the end, that’s what will drive any trading relationship. So we will continue to work as closely as we can but, in the end, our values and our principles are things that I think Australians expect us, as a government, to stand up for and we always will.
Kieran Gilbert:
Assistant Treasurer, Michael Sukkar there.