Leon Byner:
A worrying number of workers across our retail and fast-food sectors, we are told, are being cheated out of JobKeeper payments. Now this was already alleged to a select committee in South Australia’s Parliament recently, but it’s been added to by the shoppies union. So, I caught up with the Assistant Treasurer, Michael Sukkar, and I said, “Michael, do you know about this”?
Minister Sukkar:
Well, Leon, I don’t believe that there’s been widespread rorting. What we’ve always expected to see was that there would be, as with any program that a Government rolls out, unscrupulous operators and that was one of the reasons why we’ve put in place a range of mechanisms to make sure that any misconduct from an employer could be picked up. Firstly, we’ve put in place significant penalties for employers who do a range of things that are outside the scope of the program. For example, things like asking employees to do things that are outside of their ordinary employment contract, employers who don’t pass on JobKeeper, employers who don’t include all of the employees in JobKeeper that they should. So, we’ve put in place fines of up to $630,000 per breach. We’ve also – it might be worth adding, Leon – put in place a confidential tip-off line to the ATO where we have had some calls come through from employees that have then led to further action. That number is 1800 060 062, that’s 1800 060 062, which is a number that if employees have an issue or a query or they’re concerned about some aspect of the conduct of their boss, they call that number and the ATO will investigate.
Leon Byner:
Would it not be advantageous, given that you don’t want the rorting – without necessarily being too specific – announcements ought to be made to reassure people that there are checks and balances, which we always knew, and that they are being used to discourage people from doing the wrong thing because it does seem as if the perception out there is that ‘oh yes there’s rorting but we’re not hearing much about it’, so it’s assumed that it’s not being fixed?
Minister Sukkar:
Well, Leon, the other way to look at that is, again, I don’t think that we’re seeing widespread rorting of JobKeeper, I think that there are isolated cases where it’s happening and one of the reasons why I’m joining your programme today is to partly do that job, Leon, which is to make very clear to employees who are perhaps feeling a little nervous about something that their boss is doing and they’re not quite sure if it’s right or not. They should call that tip-off line and I’m also sending a very strong message to their employers that there are significant penalties involved, significant financial penalties for misconduct. I might say, Leon, that when we put the JobKeeper spend together originally, one of the key features of the scheme which was making the payments in arrears was really designed to make sure that we didn’t have employers ripping-off the system because they would have skin in the game as they effectively recoup those payments through the JobKeeper payment and pass them through to their employees. So, we have thought about this the whole way along. I have no doubt that there are going to be isolated incidents where employers do the wrong thing but at this stage, it doesn’t seem, Leon, that it’s massively widespread. That doesn’t mean that it doesn’t need to be addressed, it doesn’t mean that we don’t need to…interrupted.
Leon Byner:
But Minister can I put this to you another way? If somebody is rorting Centrelink, Centrelink wouldn’t be interested in how widespread it is, they would just be interested in ensuring that they find the people that do this and that the appropriate systems are in place to either, not only get the money back, but sometimes charge them.
I’ll give you another example. Here’s one – my partner works for a not-for-profit job network agency. They were put on JobKeeper and had their wages cut. This is despite being as busy as ever in what we must be a growing and secure industry.
I can give you dozens of these. Now, look, it may well be that it’s not widespread but I think that the point that we’re making today is that it would probably be helpful if people were reassured that, ‘hey, we’ve pinged this many this week, hey don’t do it, you don’t have to do it, you shouldn’t do it’. Wouldn’t it be better to actually reassure the public that you are on the case, not just that the rules are there but that they’re actually being applied?
Minister Sukkar:
Well I think, Leon, you’re not wrong. I think anyone that has had any interactions with the ATO, either through and audit process or anybody that has had them looking into their affairs, would acknowledge that the ATO is not a soft touch. As my agency I can assure you that the ATO absolutely protects taxpayers’ dollars and if there are employers doing the wrong thing, I’m not saying that we’re not going to go after them. I can assure you that the day will come for any employer that has done the wrong thing, that the ATO will come after them. That’s the way that the tax system operates and again, I think that anyone that has dealt with the ATO would say that they’re not going to die wondering, for want of a better term. Now, if there are employers doing the wrong thing, the rules are absolutely in place.
Leon Byner:
That’s Assistant Treasurer, Michael Sukkar, answering comments that there’s rorting going on of the JobKeeper system.