Mitchell:
We have on the line, the Assistant Treasurer, Michael Sukkar, good morning.
Sukkar:
Good morning, Neil. Good to be with you.
Mitchell:
Thanks for your time. Can we drill into some of the detail? I’ve just had a question from Michael. His wife had a job for a number of years, she accepted a new one, so she resigned from the old one and then having served out her time, she’s waiting to start the new job. That has been delayed. Is she entitled?
Sukkar:
Well, Neil, the basic position is that you have to have an employment relationship with the relevant employer on 1st March. Now, there will be an ability through the legislation that we implement to perhaps try and address some of the more borderline cases but the basic position is that you have to have been employed at that time and that’s obviously an integrity measure because we want this to be there for people who had that employment relationship prior to our announcement but for those borderline cases, no doubt there will be an ability for us to try and address them in some administrative way.
Mitchell:
Okay. Is it correct that we could be looking at five or six million unemployed if you don’t do this?
Sukkar:
Well Neil, it’s very hard to say…
Mitchell:
It’s a possibility though I mean these are horrendous figures.
Sukkar:
Well Treasury has determined that it’s likely that six million employees will be covered by this JobKeeper payment.
Mitchell:
Well that means that six million people would’ve been unemployed otherwise.
Sukkar:
I don’t think that you can necessarily say that because you’ve got to remember that we are paying the first $1,500 a fortnight. For many employees, the employers will top up their salary. So, what this does is ensure that those people can be even more productive for their businesses because the cost for the individual business is lower. But there’s no doubt that there’s a large cohort of that six million who would’ve otherwise been either stood down so not technically unemployed but not getting any hours, or have lost their jobs all together.
Mitchell:
Okay so some specific questions from Anne. I’ve been in the job twelve months next week. Am I entitled to JobKeeper payments?
Sukkar:
If you’re a full time or part time employee that 12-month rule doesn’t apply. That only applies to casuals. So, if you are a full or part time employee on the 1st of March then you are covered.
Mitchell:
I believe that 66,000 businesses have already registered, is that right?
Sukkar:
Neil, just before I got on the phone to you, it was actually 100,011 so it’s jumped significantly last night. Last night it was 55,000 and this morning it has jumped to 100,011.
Mitchell:
Good thing that the website hasn’t crashed.
Sukkar:
No, Neil, thankfully the website is functioning in perfect order but let’s just touch wood on that.
Mitchell:
Yeah okay. So, these 100,011 people, they get on and register and that’s all that they have to do at this stage?
Sukkar:
At this stage, register. In most cases, for 80 per cent of businesses, the ATO will pre-populate the employee details for the businesses because they’ll have that information already. And then for the remaining 20 per cent, those businesses will nominate the employees with the ATO and, in essence, the employer has to nominate that this is a person that I’m still employing who is eligible for the JobKeeper payment. Importantly, Neil, it’s going to keep millions of people connected to their businesses and to the greatest extent possible, mean that the most important part of a business which is their workforce, stay connected and they’re obviously able to come out the other side of this health crisis and take advantages of the opportunities ahead.
Mitchell:
Okay, another listener wants to know, ‘is it correct that people earning less than the $1,500 a fortnight could still get it so effectively, they’d be getting a pay rise’?
Sukkar:
Absolutely. We gave this a lot of thought, Neil. Obviously, we had a lot of people imploring us to look at the UK system which pays 80 per cent of wages which for some people. Obviously, if you’re a higher income earner, you then get a larger payment from the Government than someone who is a lower income earner. We think that as an egalitarian society that we provide the same support for everybody and there’s no doubt that for some people, this will be a bit more money than they were getting per fortnight. These are obviously extraordinary times. Part of the reason that we did that, Neil, is that for a scheme this big, simplicity is important and there’s no doubt that you’re seeing this morning, even with a scheme that you try and keep really, really simple, there’s always going to be some complexity in those borderline cases. So, we except that there’s going to be some people, particularly part time and casual employees, who might be getting a little bit more under this JobKeeper payment than they would’ve otherwise.
Mitchell:
There’d be disreputable employers out there who might stand their workers down and pocket the money. How do you ensure that that doesn’t happen?
Sukkar:
Well, Neil, the obligation on the employer is very clear here. There has to be an ongoing employment relationship. There’s always going to be cases where people try and game the system but there will be significant penalties for anyone that does so and while we are keen to get as many employers on board, there will be vigorous auditing that goes on and anybody that’s dealt with the ATO in recent years would know that if you game the system, they will catch up with you eventually.
Mitchell:
The ACTU so that it’s a good step but that want it to go up with $1,375 per week. Is that practical?
Sukkar:
Neil, what we announced yesterday was $126 billion which related to this particularly measure, the wage guarantee. I don’t think that anybody could argue that the Government has scrimped. That’s the largest single spending outside of wartime that any government has ever engaged in. Your listeners can do the maths if you were to double that payment per fortnight, essentially what that would cost. So, we think that this is generous. It’s six months, not three months like most other parts of the worlds. It’s about 70 per cent of median income and for many people in effected industries whether it be hospitality or retails, it’ll actually be 100 per cent replacement and as you’ve rightly said, there’s a very small cohort of people that might actually be getting a little bit more under the JobKeeper payment. We don’t think we can push this out any further, Neil, and I’m sure that most fair-minded people would say, ‘well, $126 billion is giving it a fairly good crack’.
Mitchell:
Casual workers, entitlements?
Sukkar:
Well as I said, casual workers are obviously entitled to the JobKeeper payment. They have to have been employed for 12 months as of the date of the 1st March, but they are entitled and we thought that it was important to include casual employees.
Mitchell:
What does a sole trader do? I’m thinking of somebody running a fitness training business or something and they work by themselves. They make their money getting around as a fitness trainer. Can’t train now. What do they have to do? They’re entitled to the money, aren’t they but what do they have to do?
Sukkar:
They are. Well, they just do the same thing. They get on ato.gov.au and they click on the intention to claim and they obviously provide their ABN and other details which a sole trader or self-employed person would have, and that gets the ball rolling for them, just as it would any other employer.
Mitchell:
Here’s an optimistic one. Michelle says that if I’ve got two casual jobs, do I get two payments?
Sukkar:
Well, you can’t blame Michelle for asking. No, you nominate one primary employer for the purposes of the JobKeeper payment and you get one payment.
Mitchell:
Michael and Stan, both 67 years old, both suddenly out of work. Can the age limit be changed from 67, they don’t want to go on the pension?
Sukkar:
Well, Neil, obviously there’s a lot of interactions with other parts of the social services system and we don’t want to upend the entire system so at the moment, we’re keeping it defined to people who are engaged in employment, with their employer and if you’re otherwise entitled to other payments then you fall into those buckets instead.
Mitchell:
How do we pay for all of this?
Sukkar:
Neil, we’ll be paying for it for a very long time. The Treasurer, the Prime Minister and I have been very clear. This is not a decision that we came to lightly. We will be paying for this for a very long time but extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures and I don’t think that anyone really has been able to forecast just how quickly this has deteriorated. This is unlike anything we’ve every seen before which is stating the obvious but the social dislocation not to mention for a moment, the economic dislocation that this is causing means that this will hopefully be a very worthwhile investment although we will be paying it back for a very lone time.
Mitchell:
Look, I’ve got hundreds of questions coming in here. Is there a website that people can go to, to try and get answers?
Sukkar:
Yes, treasury.gov.au. There’s a four-page fact sheet on there and obviously for employers who want to register, go to ato.gov.au which 100,011 have already done so.
Mitchell:
Look, I think that you’ve done the right thing. Thank you for your time but I think that you should be aware that your membership for the socialist party of Australia is in the mail. It’s a socialist step.
Sukkar:
Neil, look, there’s no doubt that in politics there are times when one has to suspend the ideological view and do what’s in the best interest of the country and that’s what we’ve done in this instance.
Mitchell:
But capitalism will come back?
Sukkar:
Capitalism is alive and well, Neil.
Mitchell:
Thank you very much for your time, I appreciate your help.