Neil Mitchell:
On the line, representing the Federal Government, is the Assistant Treasurer, Michael Sukkar, good morning.
Minister Sukkar:
Good morning, Neil.
Neil Mitchell:
Is there the slightest hope in hell that Scott Morrison and Daniel Andrews and you and Tim Pallas can put aside all this crap and actually govern for the people of Australia rather than fighting each other on political points? What about us, Assistant Treasurer? What about us?
Minister Sukkar:
Well, Neil that’s precisely what we’re doing in the support that we announced for New South Wales, building on the same levels of support that we provided Victoria in our lockdowns, Neil. That’s exactly what we’re doing…interrupted.
Neil Mitchell:
But you’re playing politics along the way, you’re giving Daniel Andrews a slap?
Minister Sukkar:
Well there was a very unfortunate statement from the Victorian Government last night and we rebutted that, Neil because we won’t allow lies to go unchecked.
Neil Mitchell:
So the Victorian Government was lying, was it?
Minister Sukkar:
Precisely… interrupted.
Neil Mitchell:
How?
Minister Sukkar:
Neil, we have provided more support for Victoria because it needed it. We have provided more support for Victorians per capita than New South Wales…interrupted.
Neil Mitchell:
Well of course, we’ve had twenty weeks of hard lockdown.
Minister Sukkar:
…not for any other reason other than Victoria needed it more. We’ve provided nearly three times as much economic support to Victorians as the Victorian State Government.
Neil Mitchell:
Well as you should. You’ve got a hell of a lot more of our money to spend than they have.
Minister Sukkar:
So you’ve got to have a bit of front, Neil, as a state government, to criticise the Federal Government who has provided $50 billion, three times as much support for Victoria, as the Victorian Government. Notwithstanding all of that, Neil, we rebut that point, we have to rebut those points because they are outrageous statements from the Victorian State Government but it doesn’t take our gaze off the main game and that is to support all Australians wherever they may find themselves, whether they’re Victorians or from New South Wales or any other part of the country.
Neil Mitchell:
So what about you pick up the phone and ring Tim Pallas this afternoon and say, ‘righto, let’s sort this out. Let’s sit down and sort this out’. How do we do the best thing for the people that actually own this money, for the taxpayers? How do you look after them best? Forget the state vs federal thing and try and work it out for us? Any chance of that? Any chance?
Minister Sukkar:
Neil, in all honesty we have a very good relationship.
Neil Mitchell:
Oh yeah, it looks like it.
Minister Sukkar:
At a personal level we have a very good relationship and then we see statements like this lobbed out on social media, without our knowledge, that don’t accord with our personal relationships and dealings with the State Government so that’s another unfortunate aspect of it, Neil. Reading these things for the first time on Twitter, particularly unfair statements that accuse us of not having supported Victorians in the way we have, is really disappointing. But we don’t get focussed on that, Neil, we rebut the points and then we move on and continue focussing on what we need to do.
Neil Mitchell:
So how much did Victorian small businesses get during the last lockdown from you, federally?
Minister Sukkar:
Well, Neil, as you know - as I’m sure you know - when we entered into discussions with the Victorian Government on the last lockdown, we offered to share 50:50, an entire support package. The Victorian Government said to us, ‘no, you deal with income support, we will deal with business support’. That was actually their request, not ours. That was their request. Now we’ve entered into a separate arrangement with New South Wales because they do want to share that cost…interrupted.
Neil Mitchell:
But in New South Wales you’re providing money for the workers and you’re providing half the money for business, correct?
Minister Sukkar:
Correct…interrupted.
Neil Mitchell:
In Victoria you provided money for workers and nothing for business?
Minister Sukkar:
Well the same offer was put on the table for Victoria but Victoria said ‘no, we will deal with business support, you deal with income support’. That was their decision. That was their decision, Neil.
Neil Mitchell:
But this is the whole point I’m making. Who represents that poor business person who gets nothing? And you say it’s Tim Pallas’ fault, he says it’s your fault and the poor bugger in the middle of it who is trying to run their business…interrupted.
Minister Sukkar:
Neil, that’s very straightforward. Sorry, Neil I know you have to arbitrate between the two quite fairly but this is actually very straightforward, this is not an area of conjecture. The Victorian State Government asked to have that responsibility in order for us to fund the income support. Guess what? We funded the income support and sadly thousands of businesses - six weeks after our last lockdown - have not seen a cent from the Victorian Government. That’s just a statement of fact.
Neil Mitchell:
So what are you going to do about it? Are you going to ring Tim Pallas? You’ve got this marvellous personal relationship with, Tim? Ring him up and say ‘what’s going on here mate? How can we look after these people?’
Minister Sukkar:
Well that is precisely what the Treasurer, Josh Frydenberg, will be doing, but that is the responsibility that they took on. They wanted that responsibility, they now have to deliver on it. Sadly they didn’t include sole traders in that support. Obviously during the JobKeeper package which was nearly a $50 billion injection of support into Victoria, we did support sole traders. It was disappointing that the Victorian Government chose not to do that. Again, Neil, the Victorian Government wanted the arrangements that way, that was at their request and sadly thousands of Victorian businesses have not seen a cent since which is really a question that you need to ask the Victorian Government.
Neil Mitchell:
So if we go into another lockdown, will the Federal Government guarantee that small businesses are compensated through the Federal Government?
Minister Sukkar:
Well the arrangements that we’ve put in place for New South Wales - so for example with income support kicking in at week four - that will apply throughout the country once you reach a four week lockdown period. It’s important to note, Neil, that prior to the last Victorian lockdown there were two minor lockdowns and short lockdowns in Queensland and Western Australia post JobKeeper where no support was required because they were very short periods of time.
Neil Mitchell:
But everybody seems to be forgetting, and I know you don’t because you’re a Victorian, but everybody seems to be forgetting that we’ve had twenty weeks of hard lockdown in Victoria. Nobody else has had that in the country and we deserve…interrupted.
Minister Sukkar:
Neil, I can assure you that the Treasurer, Josh Frydenberg, the Assistant Treasurer in myself, never forget that because we lived through it.
Neil Mitchell:
So can you guarantee that if we go into another lockdown, that small business gets compensation from the Federal Government?
Minister Sukkar:
I can guarantee that we will offer the same support to Victorian businesses that we’ve offered in New South Wales with the big caveat, Neil that these arrangements are made with the state government that it applies to. In this case, New South Wales, said ‘yes, we want to share the cost’, in the Victorian Government case they said ‘no, you deal with income support, we will look after small business, we consider that our responsibility. Now if the Victorian Government change their mind and say ‘well no actually we botched that in the last lockdown, we were unable to deliver, six weeks after businesses still have not seen a cent, can you support us in that too’? The same arrangements would apply in Victoria as apply in New South Wales. We have an agnostic lens to this, all Australians are equally important but the state governments do have a role to play and in this case the Victorian Government, I mean you can read the public statements, Neil. ‘We want the Federal Government funding income support, we consider business support our responsibility’. That’s out of the Victorian State Government, they’re not my words.
Neil Mitchell:
Well I keep coming back to this point of trying to sort it out because it certainly looks like New South Wales is getting a better deal. Are you saying that the Victorian Government is just playing politics with this? Are they just focussing on the next election, is that what it’s about?
Minister Sukkar:
Well it seems to me that there’s no doubt about that. The reality is we’ve put in place an additional payment for New South Wales once they’ve hit week four of a lockdown. That would equally apply if Victoria were to enter a four week lockdown. These are payments that tapper-up as the lockdown extends. That would apply to Victoria as it applies to New South Wales. But it’s just galling, Neil, when we’ve provided more per capita support for Victoria, we’ve provided three times as much support for Victorians than the Victorian government…interrupted.
Neil Mitchell:
As you should because we’ve had twenty weeks of lockdown.
Minister Sukkar:
…for the Victorian Government to ignore that is disappointing.
Neil Mitchell:
But it’s not comparing apples with apples because we’ve had twenty weeks of hard lockdown, how much has New South Wales had?
Minister Sukkar:
And that’s why it’s higher, absolutely, Neil. I’m not saying that it shouldn’t be high but the argument that we’ve provided less to Victoria is factually wrong from the Victorian State Government and they must be called-out. Having said all that, I’m today, the Treasurer today, the Prime Minister today, will not be focussing on a squabble with the Victorian Government. We’ve rebutted it, we’ve made our point, we’ve proved and shown that they have been making misleading statements but we move on and deal with what we’re actually here to do which is to support Australians.
Neil Mitchell:
Has anybody from the Federal Government - be it Josh Frydenberg or Scott Morrison - spoken to the Victorian Premier or the Victorian Treasurer and said ‘this is what we’re doing in New South Wales, we want to do the same in Victoria’. Has anybody actually picked up the phone and talked to them?
Minister Sukkar:
Neil, I couldn’t answer that question, I’m in Western Australia at the moment, I genuinely don’t know who the Prime Minister and Treasurer have spoken to. But they speak very regularly with all of their counterparts and this is why when we see statements posted on Twitter - highly critical statements posted on Twitter - not communicated to us directly, that it is disappointing. But we move on and we just deal with the problems, Neil.
Neil Mitchell:
Part of the discussion when Victoria was saying we want aid and they weren’t getting it, there was a fear that Victoria could go into lockdown too quickly. With what’s happened in New South Wales, arguably they went into a lockdown too late and have in fact been rewarded for that bad decision. How do you react to that?
Minister Sukkar:
Well look in the end, Neil, we have to provide the support to Australian citizens. Whether they’ve been in a jurisdiction with a state government who has made no mistakes or a state government that has made a lot of mistakes, in the end, our focus is on supporting them and we do it in any way we have to, we work with whoever we have to, we get on with whoever we have to and one way we try to achieve that is not being gratuitous and certainly that’s not the case here. But of course mistakes have been made, Neil, there’s no doubt about it. Mistakes have been made in a number of jurisdictions. Yes, we had some catastrophic errors here in Victoria but clearly mistakes are being made all around the country. No government, and this is in defence of all state governments, no state government can entirely protect against human error which unfortunately and inevitably happens from time to time.
Neil Mitchell:
Oh no, and we’ve seen at a federal level whenever you try to implement anything under various governments. Go back to the pink batts under Labor, for example. Just something else. The inflation figures in the US are looking pretty…well it’s going up and is at a higher level than expected. Are you edgy about that because of the future of interest rates?
Minister Sukkar:
Yeah I saw that overnight, Neil. They were, from my perspective, slightly surprising and a bit higher than I thought. There’s nothing to be immediately concerned about but it’s a watching brief, absolutely.
Neil Mitchell:
Because that has to affect us, doesn’t it?
Minister Sukkar:
Well of course the US economy will have a large impact. The operation of the Federal Reserve in the United States, decisions that they make have an impact on monetary systems around the world including Australia so we’ll watch it very closely. We’re alert but not alarmed, I think that is probably a good way to summarise it.
Neil Mitchell:
You wouldn’t be guaranteeing low interest rates long term, surely?
Minister Sukkar:
Well we’ve got an independent Reserve Bank so we’re never able to guarantee one way or the other what interest rates will do, they are independently decided and a function of a range of factors. But the fact that we’re at record low interest rates, I think if we look at the conduct of local banks who have been offering reasonably long term fixed rate products, and statements from the Governor of the Reserve Bank I think can give us some caution that we’re not on the cusp of massive rises. That’s me extrapolating their public statements and banks offering long term fixed rate, low interest rate products. I don’t think there’s anything that should be worrying Victorians immediately but we’ve got to keep an eye on it.
Neil Mitchell:
Good to speak to you. Just finally, have you been vaccinated yet?
Minister Sukkar:
I have, Neil, yes.
Neil Mitchell:
What did you get, Pfizer or AstraZeneca?
Minister Sukkar:
I got Pfizer. The ACT Government during the sitting period that was occurring during the Victorian lockdown, recommended that Victorian MPs get a vaccine so I got my first vaccine and Pfizer was offered to me as I’m under 40.
Neil Mitchell:
Well you haven’t had the second one yet?
Minister Sukkar:
I have, I have had the second as well.
Neil Mitchell:
See I would assume that all of the Cabinet and Ministry would be vaccinated, wouldn’t they?
Minister Sukkar:
I don’t know, Neil. I’ve read various reports around the place that indicate a number of them have been but I haven’t gone around with a checklist checking it off. In my case I felt a certain relief in having it done.
Neil Mitchell:
Thank you very much for your time, I appreciate it. Michael Sukkar, he’s a Victorian member of course, representing the Federal Government, the Assistant Treasurer.