Patricia Karvelas:
Michael Sukkar is the Minister for Housing and the Assistant Treasurer and he joins me this afternoon. Minister, welcome.
Minister Sukkar:
Hi Patricia. Good to be with you.
Patricia Karvelas:
The Victorian Government has asked for help from the Defence Force as it struggles to cope with increased demand for COVID-19 testing. Should the ADF have been brought in earlier given these long waits that have been reported over the last few days?
Minister Sukkar:
Well, Patricia, the ADF actually have had a relatively significant, ongoing role and we’re obviously working very closely with all state and territories, obviously including the Victorian State Government, we’re ready to assist them. Where they want additional assistance and where they’ve made that clear, of course we’re ready to assist. I know that the PM has been speaking on a very regular basis with the Premier and now that this request for additional assistance has been made, of course we’re here to step-up and help the Victorian Government. In a particular case or issues that we’re considering at the moment and looking at from a Victorian health perspective, where the ADF can provide additional assistance – whether that’s logistical or other support – of course, we’re there to assist.
Patricia Karvelas:
I will get to your portfolio in a moment and it’s of course linked to COVID at the moment, very much, but on this spike in Victorian COVID-19 cases, the NSW Premier is calling on tourism operators and other businesses to shun customers from Melbourne’s coronavirus hotspots, or essentially Melbourne. Is that a good idea, is that something that you support?
Minister Sukkar:
Well at the end of the day, state premiers and territory chief ministers will be responsible for their own jurisdictions and I’m not going to critique the advice that they provide. I think that every person, every business, every organisation should follow the health advice and I don’t think that it’s necessarily consistent to say that just because the customer is a Victorian, that they represent a health risk. That would be, I think, a fairly self-evident point to make. The reality is that there are issues with clusters here in Victoria. They are being addressed, as I understand it from the Victorian State Government with, of course, assistance from the Federal Government and the national bodies, but ultimately, I think that if you’re an Australian and you’ve got an Australian customer, to assist them and to serve them and to do business with them if it is consistent with the health advice, then of course you should.
Patricia Karvelas:
Okay well I know that you’re trying to be polite about the way that you approach this but you are essentially saying that if Melbournians go to New South Wales or Sydney, this idea that they be shunned is not something that should happen?
Minister Sukkar:
Well it’s certainly not my suggestion, Patricia, and I don’t think that it’s necessarily consistent with the health advice. So again, I would just say to all businesses, all organisations and individuals, follow the health advice and if Victorians are following the health advice, then of course anyone interacting with them should feel very safe.
Patricia Karvelas:
An expert panel of doctors and politicians warned the Federal Government of a missed opportunity to prevent coronavirus outbreaks in high-risk groups such as migrant communities, several weeks before the outbreak of that spike that we’ve seen in Victoria. Have migrant communities been failed or has there been a failure to properly deal with migrant communities, particularly perhaps in Victoria where we’ve seen these spikes?
Minister Sukkar:
No, I utterly reject that. If you look at all the advertising, the $30 million coronavirus advertising campaign put together, it has a significant focus on different ethnic groups, different languages are targeted with communications for those groups. I know that the Acting Minister for Immigration, Alan Tudge, has met with over 100 community leaders in a series of roundtables that he’s been doing to help communicate to them. Those leaders are often the conduits to larger communities. So, we’ve focussed very heavily on this to make sure that the message gets out in as many languages as possible and that has continued.
Patricia Karvelas:
But clearly it didn’t work?
Minister Sukkar:
Well I don’t know that there’s particularly evidence of that yet but at the end of the day, the analysis of issues here in Victoria are probably better asked of the Victorian State Government and the Victorian Chief Medical Officer. But ultimately, the Federal Government has put huge resources into communicating the messages that explain the health advice, not just to mainstream English-speaking Australians but also different multicultural groups and parts of the community who are more versed in other languages. There’s been a huge focus on this, and I’ve seen it specifically even in my own electorate, targeted and tailored communications that have gone out to, in some cases very small cohorts, but groups of people who don’t speak English as a first language.
Patricia Karvelas:
Woolworths and Coles have reinstated product limits on select categories in Victorian stores now in response to what is a new surge in demand. Are you disappointed that some Australians might be starting to hoard again, at least in your home state? I remember that famous moment – and it’s been one of the most iconic moments of this COVID-19 crisis in Australia – where the Prime Minister said to “stop it”. Should they be stopping it again?
Minister Sukkar:
Well I really hope that we don’t see that again. I’ve seen the preliminary warnings that have come from Coles and Woolworths and hopefully they just remain preliminary and that everybody realises that what we saw the first time around is that there is no shortage of produce, there is no shortage of the every day items that you need. I, at this stage, Patricia, am going to give the benefit of the doubt to Victorians and Australians in hoping that it doesn’t manifest itself in a more serious way. But of course, I’d be disappointed if it did, but having said that, I don’t think that we’re there yet so lets just hope that common sense prevails.
Patricia Karvelas:
Okay just one more question on generally, what we’re seeing. Again, you’re a Melbourne-based MP, should Melbournians not be going interstate? Obviously, we could go, we could go to Sydney. Should they just be staying put now?
Minister Sukkar:
Well again, I think that everybody has got to follow the health advice really closely and the health advice doesn’t say that at present. I think what we’ve seen is a lot of Victorians relax. In the last few weeks, I think that there’s been a little bit of complacency that’s crept in. That wasn’t helped by a 10,000-person march which I think sent a very, very bad message, certainly one of double standards, to many Victorians. So…interrupted.
Patricia Karvelas:
I’ve got to get you on that. Can I just pick you up on that? I’ll tell you why. I’ve heard that being argued by a couple of frontbenches. You, Jane Hume said the same thing to me and others. But why didn’t it have a consequence in somewhere like Sydney because they marched there too, they haven’t seen the spike there, so why did it have this consequence in Melbourne but not in Sydney?
Minister Sukkar:
Well we could probably have a half-hour discussion on that. I think that if you look at the New South Wales Government, they took it to their Supreme Court to have it stopped, which sent, I think, a very, very strong message, when the Government takes the organisers of a rally to court, it sends a very strong message that it’s not approved, there’s no acquiescence, there’s no looking the other way. That didn’t happen here, and I think that sent a really bad message, Patricia. That’s my analysis but I think that we could probably get into the entrails, but I think that in the end, we saw some complacency creep in. A 10,000-person rally that occurred, doesn’t help that and I think that that’s fairly self-evident.
Patricia Karvelas:
On your portfolio, what happens when the rent moratorium expires after six months? There’s been a lot of focus on JobKeeper, but the rent moratorium is also going to expire. What’s going to happen there? Is there a review or a consideration about extending it?
Minister Sukkar:
Well, Patricia, there’s no set-and-forget with these things, as I’ve said to you many times. The reality is that we’ve put in place many additional supports quite separate to JobKeeper – whether it be JobSeeker and the Coronavirus Supplement, again a $550 fortnightly payment which essentially doubles the payment for those unemployed which means that people can meet the essential items of life including their rent. But there’s no doubt, Patricia, that we come to a point where there’s a whole heap of deferrals in rent, waivers in rent as well, that landlords will never receive and ultimately that day of course is coming, but we will assess it at the time. I think that if you look at the entire strategy, it’s about ‘how do we get on top of the health outcome and the health issues that are caused by coronavirus, that allow you to open-up the economy, that allows people to get back into their businesses and allow them to get their employees back to work’. That has a cascading impact throughout the entire economy, including the question of moratorium on rent. You can’t have a moratorium on evictions forever, you would accept that, I think that all Australians would accept that…interrupted.
Patricia Karvelas:
Oh absolutely but what I want to know is, is it up for consideration to extend it or more specifically, could you extend it somewhere like in Victoria, where clearly there are outbreaks and business-as-usual isn’t going to start up quite like it can in some other states and territories?
Minister Sukkar:
I’m not sure that we can make that call just yet. I appreciate your caution but I’m not sure that we can make that call just yet and, in the end, this will be a matter for National Cabinet. The questions of moratoriums on evictions and rents are particularly a province of state and territory governments. Obviously, we had a national decision made through the National Cabinet which I think was one of the great successes of the National Cabinet. In the end, it will be a decision for that body, obviously with a lot of feedback from the state and territory premiers and chief ministers who have primary constitutional responsibilities for these matters. But again, without sounding like a broken record, these sorts of questions come back to how soon we can get on top of the health issues to allow the economy to get to some sense of business as usual, because putting moratoriums on evictions, deferring rent, that just can’t continue forever.
Patricia Karvelas:
Some of your Liberal colleagues are backing major changes to superannuation as part of a plan to allow Australians to dip into their retirement balances to buy first homes. You know that they’re pushing for this, you’re in charge of this area. Is this something that you’re considering?
Minister Sukkar:
Well I’ve said, Patricia, very publicly, that backbenchers are absolutely encouraged to examine these sorts of issues. We, as the Liberal and National parties – we are absolutely focussed on home ownership. So much of my thinking, the programs that we’ve put in place – whether it’s the First Home Loan Deposit Scheme, the First Home Super Saver Scheme or indeed the HomeBuilder $25,000 grant that we’ve just put in place – is really focussed on helping Australians get into their first home. We think that getting onto the properly ladder, getting that small stake of our country is so important for so many Australians. So, I absolutely don’t want to ever discourage backbenchers…interrupted.
Patricia Karvelas:
You don’t want to shut it down but then there’s actually investigating it to see that if you can develop it is a policy. Are you open to it?
Minister Sukkar:
Well what we have done – when the Prime Minister was the Treasurer and I was his assistant – we put in place a First Home Super Savers Scheme which is effectively a salary-sacrifice tax cut for first home buyers to save up to $30,000 through their superannuation. They save about $12,000 or $13,000 in tax, which they can then put towards their deposit for a first home. That has been a really successful scheme coupled with the First Home Loan Deposit Scheme, which provides people with an opportunity to buy a home with a deposit of as little as 5 per cent, they are working really well and we’re seeing record first home ownership in the last 18 months or so and I think that’s going to continue, particularly if the market remains relatively flat. So again, you’ve always got to adjust policies to the circumstances in front of us. At the moment I think, there are lots of opportunities for first home buyers, and I won’t take all of the credit, a number of states and territories are also putting their shoulder to the wheel in helping first home buyers get into the market, complementing some of the things that the Federal Government are doing as well. So, it’s a long-winded way of saying, Patricia, that you look at everything, you never stop looking and examining these sorts of things but as to the specifics that were raised by this group of backbenchers, I applaud them for being motivated by the goal that is really central to the Morrison Government and that is ‘how do you help people buy their first home?’
Patricia Karvelas:
Minister, thank you for coming on the show.
Minister Sukkar:
Thanks for having me, Patricia.