4 February 2021

Interview with Patricia Karvelas, ABC News Afternoon Briefing

Note

Topics: JobKeeper, coronavirus economic support measures, economic recovery, JobSeeker, coronavirus management in Victoria, Victorian Liberal Party.

Patricia Karvelas:

Michael Sukkar is the Assistant Treasurer and Minister for Housing and Homelessness. Welcome to the program.

Minister Sukkar:

Hi, Patricia. Great to be with you.

Patricia Karvelas:

Which industries beyond tourism, do you believe will need assistance once JobKeeper ends?

Minister Sukkar:

Well, Patricia as the Minister for Finance has said, the Treasurer, the Prime Minister, we will make decisions about these sorts of matters closer to March. We’ve been very clear about JobKeeper being a temporary and targeted program and indeed it’s been extraordinarily successful. We now have seen 90 per cent of the jobs lost as a result of the pandemic having returned. We’ve seen 736,000 jobs created over the past six months so there’s no doubt that JobKeeper has been a huge success. We’ve seen businesses who were reliant on JobKeeper having now graduated from it so there’s no doubt that it has done an extraordinary job. In relation to other areas of assistance, we’ve shown with travel agents for example with a $128 million package in clearly a sector that is disproportionately impacted by border closures, that we’re willing to assist those heavily impacted industries. It should also be said with respect to tourism in Queensland for example, that state governments also need to dig deep and support those sorts of industries. I’m not going to outline that for you today, Patricia, because those sorts of decisions will be made down the track but I think that the clear point that we’ve always made is that this huge program being JobKeeper is temporary, it can’t last forever and I think that everybody accepts that.

Patricia Karvelas:

Yes but the harm that is being caused to some industries – tourism, education – is not temporary, it continues. Take me through this idea of a potential HECS-style loan scheme that is reportedly being considered by Treasury. Do you think that an idea of loans to businesses has merit?

Minister Sukkar:

Well Patricia it’s not something that I’ve proposed so if that’s in the paper it’s not because I have spoken about it. As I said, the Government has put in place unprecedented support. I think we all accept the economic response and the fiscal levers that we have pulled have been remarkable, we have seen that it’s worked, that so many businesses have graduated from JobKeeper. Indeed, late last year we saw some 35,000 employees, 7,000 business, in one month, graduate from JobKeeper. So these sorts of decisions will be made as and when we look at the data and assess the ongoing impacts and of course so much of those economic consequences will be impacted by the rollout of the vaccine and the efficacy of the vaccine eventually too.

Patricia Karvelas:

Is there a risk though that struggling businesses might be reluctant to take on more debt?

Minister Sukkar:

Well, Patricia, again, those decisions will be made on a business by business basis…interrupted.

Patricia Karvelas:

Okay I’m not asking about the decisions but business sentiment is the question, right? You’re a struggling business, JobKeeper is about to be switched off, the government perhaps offers you loans. Would businesses be concerned about that? You took to businesses in your own electorate and nationally. What is the sentiment?

Minister Sukkar:

Well I’d point you to data today that shows that business confidence is up 22 per cent where on a month-by-month basis, we’ve seen business confidence exponentially increasing. That’s not my opinion, that’s not anecdotal, Patricia, that’s hard data. So I think that we are seeing confidence returning quite strongly and that 22 per cent today I think exceeds some of our wildest expectations. I think from a confidence perspective – like so many things – it’s intertwined with our health response. The better the health response, the more likely that confidence is returning. Clearly, when you look at the leader board of how countries around the world have dealt with Covid-19, Australia can very proudly be at the top of that leader board and that is due to the leadership of the Morrison Government working closely with state governments. But it’s been no accident and that health response is one of the reasons why confidence has returned so strongly, why 90 per cent of the jobs that were lost are back, why 736,000 jobs have been created in the last six months. So, Patricia, I think that we can be very optimistic about this year economically but of course we’re going to watch it very closely and we’ll make decisions informed by the best information, the best data and the best economic situation at that time.

Patricia Karvelas:

Let’s talk about the JobSeeker payment. The Reserve Bank Governor said that it shouldn’t return – in his view, in his opinion – to pre Covid levels. Do you agree with that?

Minister Sukkar:

Well, Patricia, again we’ve ensured that we’ve extended those arrangements until the end of March and we’ll make a decision closer to that time, again, informed by the prevailing economic consequences at that time.

Patricia Karvelas:

Well the RBA Governor doesn’t think that it should go back to that pre Covid rate. That’s a pretty strong voice, isn’t it?

Minister Sukkar:

Well of course we respect the RBA Governor and he’s entitled to opine on any number of aspects of the economy but…interrupted.

Patricia Karvelas:

It’s interesting you say that because your colleague yesterday, Tim Wilson, spoke to me and said that he thinks that he was speaking outside his mandate. Do you disagree with that?

Minister Sukkar:

Well, Patricia the point that I’m making is that the RBA Governor can quite rightly talk about matters that affect the economy, but in the end, the Government will be informed by the best decision making that we can. Without sounding arrogant, I think that if you look at the decision making processes and the decisions and the consequences of those decisions that we’ve taken throughout the pandemic, have hit the mark each and every time. Whether it was JobKeeper or JobSeeker or the HomeBuilder program, for example, in my own portfolio, as far as supporting 1 million jobs in the residential construction industry. I suppose what I am saying to you, Patricia, is that we make these decisions with the full knowledge of the consequences at the time and we don’t need to make that decision just yet because, as you’ve seen throughout the last 12 months, things do move pretty quickly and events can change very quickly too. Now, yes we’ve been on I think, an improving trajectory for a period of time and that’s highlighted by the jobs figures. We had effective unemployment of 15 per cent last year, it’s now down to 6.6 per cent unemployment. So we’ve done so much right but the reason we’ve been able to do that is that we took decisions with the information at the time and that’s what we’ll do with JobSeeker too.

Patricia Karvelas:

I just want to change topic if we can to something that is happening in our own home state – you’re a Victorian and so am I. Are you concerned by the leak in Victoria in hotel quarantine and does that demonstrate that perhaps the entire system needs to be looked at again, that national standards should be introduced, for instance, into hotel quarantine?

Minister Sukkar:

On that question I’ll be informed by the discussions at National Cabinet and really the experiences, not just from Victoria, but from other states and territories. I think that we need to keep the one case in Victoria in to some perspective.  I mean in the last 24 hours we had about 439,000 cases worldwide. So I don’t want to diminish the seriousness of it but the ability and the capability to be able to manage these sorts of outbreaks, I think we all accept, need to be constantly worked on but I don’t think that we should overly panic. From a Federal Government perspective, we always stand ready to support state government in their attempts to try and make sure that there aren’t outbreaks that get out of control and New South Wales has done that phenomenally successfully in a very economically responsible way and we’d hope that all jurisdictions can do that.

Patricia Karvelas:

Okay but do we need national standards? I mean that’s what’s being demonstrated here? Isn’t that becoming clear that we’re seeing consistent leaks out of hotel quarantine? Australians have done the hard work, as you’ve made the point before, there’s no doubt Australians have put in the hard yards to try and supress this virus but we’re living under a cloud of this situation where this virus leaks out. Don’t you need to have a national approach?

Minister Sukkar:

Well Patricia we’ve really only seen one instance of an outbreak from hotel quarantine that has been devastating and that was obviously the cause of the Victorian second wave. Yes, we have seen outbreaks in other places but it’s been well contained. I think that you and I and all of your viewers, Patricia, have seen, over the course of the year, a range of instances where, through the National Cabinet, nationally agreed standards on a whole range of issues have been discussed. Some have been agreed upon and some haven’t and in the end, many states and territories say that in the end, they will make their own decisions about certain arrangements. So, again Patricia, I would leave that to the National Cabinet. I understand your point, I think that there’s an attractiveness to national standards but we also have to understand that states and territories have consistently made the point that they will be the final decision maker for arrangements in their own state. No matter how much you and I might think otherwise, that is really going to be the position but we’ll wait and see what comes out of National Cabinet. I’d be interested to see what the feedback is from Victoria in relation to this last case.

Patricia Karvelas:

Well on that, do you believe that the Australian Open should have happened? This obviously was a breach in a situation where a lot of these people have come in for the Australian Open. Obviously we bring back Australians and that’s even been slowed down. Does it show that this wasn’t worth it?

Minister Sukkar:

Well Patricia from a personal perspective, I was very happy to see the Australian Open go ahead because I want to see a level of normality come back to our lives. Provided it is competently managed – and that is obviously a pretty important qualifier, provided that it is competently managed – I was keen to see the Australian Open go ahead and I was also keen to ensure that that didn’t take up places that would otherwise have gone to Australians returning which the Victorian Government ensured us was the case. Again, provided these discretionary events are managed in a decent way, my instinct is that I’d prefer to see us get back to some level of normality. Last year, Patricia, as a Victorian you know this really well, we were all locked down for such a long period of time that just having the outlet of some level of normality with sporting events, was actually a really important outlet for us and I think that coming out of Covid is really important too. But of course the qualifier there is that if the Victorian Government is going to green-light the Australian Open – which I agree with – that they have a role in competently managing it and making sure that…interrupted.

Patricia Karvelas:

Are you confident that they can competently manage it?

Minister Sukkar:

Well we’ll see, Patricia…interrupted.

Patricia Karvelas:

Well we’ll see but are you today, right now when I interview you, confident that they can manage?

Minister Sukkar:

Patricia, the proof will be in the pudding. We’ll see…interrupted.

Patricia Karvelas:

So you’re not confident that all of these people that have come from overseas – from hotspots – can be managed competently by the Victorian Government?

Minister Sukkar:

Don’t verbal me, Patricia. I said that…interrupted.

Patricia Karvelas:

I’m asking because you said that the proof…that we’re waiting?

Minister Sukkar:

That didn’t sound like a question, it sounded like you were making a statement on my behalf.

Patricia Karvelas:

No, no, no. I said, “do you think that they can do it?”

Minister Sukkar:

I think that provided they can be competently managed, I’d like to see these events go ahead. I think that time will tell, the proof will be in the pudding, and I really hope – it is my sincere wish – that they are able to do that because as a Melbournian, I’m very proud of the fact that one of the grand slams happens in our home town and so I want it to go ahead but of course the qualifier is that it is competently managed and I hope that that is the case.

Patricia Karvelas:

Just on another topic before I let you get on with your day and your other meetings, do you back the assessment of our security agencies that right wing extremism is on the rise in Australia?

Minister Sukkar:

Well Patricia I must admit not being in a security portfolio it’s not an issue that I’ve particularly looked at closely because I’ve been obviously very busy with the housing market and our economic response to the pandemic but I don’t second guess our agencies. I was a former Chair of the security and intelligence committee and I worked very closely with our agencies while I was overseeing their work and I’ve taken – as a general rule – to accept their advice.

Patricia Karvelas:

Are you concerned by reports that Coalition Senators removed a reference to an increase in right wing extremism from a Senate motion?

Minister Sukkar:

Look, Patricia, I must admit that I’m not aware of it. I’d have to understand what the context was but I would back my Senate colleagues for making the right decision. In the absence of knowing exactly what it was though, it’s very hard for me to comment.

Patricia Karvelas:

Just finally, are you disappointed by the outcome of the Menzies by-election?

Minister Sukkar:

The Menzies pre-selection?

Patricia Karvelas:

Yeah.

Minister Sukkar:

Yeah, look, Patricia, I greatly respect Kevin Andrews. He has had a phenomenal career. He has served our nation, he has served his electorate, he’s been a Cabinet Minister. There’s almost nothing that he hasn’t done in politics so in that respect, I’m very grateful for his service but nothing lasts forever and that includes political careers, Patricia. I think most of us think that thirty years is a pretty good run and I don’t think that there are many Victorian MPs in our history who have achieved as much as Kevin Andrews. There are many but he is certainly in the upper echelon of Federal MPs. His successor has got big shoes to fill but he is clearly a very accomplished individual and we are very confident about the future of that seat and the Victorian Liberal Party with people like that coming through.

Patricia Karvelas:

Thanks so much for your time.

Minister Sukkar:

Thanks Patricia.