Patricia Karvelas:
Michael Sukkar is the Assistant Treasurer and Minister for Housing and joins us this afternoon. Michael Sukkar, welcome.
Minister Sukkar:
Hi Patricia.
Patricia Karvelas:
Are you offended by this fabricated post promoted by the Chinese Government?
Minister Sukkar:
I’m completely offended. This doctored image is repugnant, as the Prime Minister said. It really uses an image of reverence which is the uniform of our defence forces. Australians absolutely revere the men and women who have fought for the liberties that we enjoy, in that uniform, and to see a doctored image, clearly an incendiary image that has been doctored in that way, is something that I am utterly offended about. We are a proud country. As I’ve said, we hold our defence forces in a revered way and sure, there are issues that Australia is owning up to and that has been in the media in recent times following the Brereton report but we absolutely are appalled by this tweet and to come out of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is really disappointing, Patricia. So I think that like most Australians, I suspect like yourself, I am really offended by it.
Patricia Karvelas:
So how should the Federal Government respond then if there is no apology from Beijing?
Minister Sukkar:
Well Patricia, as the Prime Minister said, we’ve been patiently trying to engage with China and we’re realistic. I think that all Australians are reasonably realistic that in any relationship like ours with countries with two very different political systems – ours being an open and free and fair democracy – that there will be challenges from time to time and the way that you address those challenges is to engage at a diplomatic level, engage at a ministerial level, engage at a leader’s level and the Prime Minister echoed that today. So in the end, I think that the way through these sorts of challenges is to engage directly and it’s certainly not through incendiary, doctored images like the one that we saw today.
Patricia Karvelas:
Twitter hasn’t taken the tweet down, which the Prime Minister wanted, but they have instead written around the message that ‘the following media includes potentially sensitive content’. Is that acceptable?
Minister Sukkar:
Well look, Patricia, obviously I’d like to see the image removed immediately given that it depicts our defence forces in a disgusting way but in the end these will be matters for Twitter. I mean, Twitter has shown in recent times, a certain willingness to censor, I suspect, images and messages that are far less disgusting than the one that we’re referring to here. So I’m surprised that they’ve chosen not to do that and I would just echo the Prime Minister’s request and that is for Twitter to remove it immediately.
Patricia Karvelas:
Are you referring to Donald Trump’s tweets?
Minister Sukkar:
Yeah including Donald Trump but many tweets. Donald Trump and many others that are removed on a very regular basis, Patricia…interrupted.
Patricia Karvelas:
I don’t think Donald Trump’s are removed, they are fact checked, right? They don’t pull them down, they’ve said that they’re inaccurate and here, they’ve said that the information is sensitive. Isn’t it consistent?
Minister Sukkar:
No, no so you’ve brought up Donald Trump, not myself. They remove tweets quite regularly. Donald Trump’s, yes, they’ve censored but tweets are removed very regularly where it depicts content that is deemed to be unacceptable. I would have thought that very clearly, from 25 million Australians, that to depict a concocted, doctored image of a person in an Australian uniform holding a bloodied knife to the neck of what seems to be depicted as an Afghani child, is outrageous and if that’s not something that should be removed, I’m not sure what is. Look I’m not a censorship sort of person broadly speaking but Twitter has shown a willingness to remove offensive images and I don’t think that there’s something that could be much more offensive to those Australians who, again, revere the men and women who have worn that uniform in the past, and will in the future, who have fought for the liberties that we enjoy today.
Patricia Karvelas:
Yeah the image is absolutely breath taking and fake so it’s incredible that they’ve done this. I just want to talk about something that Senator Rex Patrick has raised. He says that given China doesn’t want to improve bilateral relations with Australia, why do we need to have that many diplomats from China here. He’s raised this publicly around what our Government should be doing, that we should match words with action and flush a lot of them out. Do you think that the diplomatic numbers should be reduced in terms of the representation from China?
Minister Sukkar:
Patricia, I don’t think that that’s the main game here. Our position is let’s not needlessly inflame difficulties and tensions. I think that we’ve shown that from the beginning. Now at the same time, we’re a proud nation. We’re not going to bow down and in some way give up our sovereignty or not fight for the best interest of Australians and fight for our national interest. But at the same time, let’s not needlessly, and in an immature fashion, seek to inflame tensions. So I don’t necessarily agree with Rex Patrick. I think that more engagement, not less, is the way to go and as I said to you at the beginning, that’s engagement not just at a leader and at a ministerial level but also engagement at a bureaucratic and diplomatic level. So I think that my instinct on this, Patricia, is that more people to people engagement rather than less is the way to go. Being mature and engaging with one another is the way to go. As a Government, the Morrison Government will always stand for the interests of Australians and the Australian national interest and we have to walk that fine line without needlessly creating tension where it doesn’t need to be.
Patricia Karvelas:
So given all of this, it looks like the relationship with Beijing is at a record low, we saw these tariffs being imposed on our wine. Do you expect more economic retaliation?
Minister Sukkar:
I’m not in the game of getting out the crystal ball here…interrupted.
Patricia Karvelas:
But there looks like a pattern of behaviour doesn’t there?
Minister Sukkar:
I think that we have to be prepared for ongoing difficulties and that’s why I think that we have to redouble our efforts. And when I saw ‘we’, I don’t mean just Australia but Australia and China have to redouble our efforts to try and bridge the divide. In the end that’s what will be the focus of this Government and the focus has been that in recent times. It will continue, we will work even harder to do so but in the end, as I said, we will always do that in a way that ensures that we protect our national interest, we stand up for the Australian national interest and we’ll never cede any aspect of our sovereignty. So that’s what we need to do and I suspect now, Patricia, we’ll just need to redouble our efforts in trying to achieve those objectives.
Patricia Karvelas:
I just want to move to an announcement that you made over the weekend in relation very much to your portfolio. How much will it cost to extend the HomeBuilder program for another three months?
Minister Sukkar:
We estimate that it will be about $240 million extra. Part of that will be an additional 15,000 projects for contracts that will be signed for a new home or a renovation between 1st January and the 31st March. It also will include some projects that now will be able to go ahead because we’ve extended the timeframe from which you have to commence the project. Under the original HomeBuilder program, we quite deliberately designed it to create a sense of urgency to make sure that we saved jobs in the residential construction industry. We had a three month timeframe from the time that you signed the contract to the time that you had to start the project. The program has been so successful that builders have said to us that we’re starting to struggle to meet that three month timeframe so we’ve increased that to six months. So between those two changes – the extension of the scheme to 31st March and extending the timeframe by which a project needs to begin – we estimate that will cost an additional $240 million to the Budget.
Patricia Karvelas:
Okay and what’s the total number of successful applications for the HomeBuilder program?
Minister Sukkar:
Well we’ve got just a touch under 24,000 applications through the state and territory revenue offices at present. Treasury estimated up until the 31st December that there would be 27,000 so we’re perilously close to that. I suspect that we’ll go above what those early expectations were which is a good thing because this is a program that, at the end of the day, if it has more projects than we thought, that just means more jobs. More jobs in the residential construction industry from the tradies onsite all the way to the manufacturing workers who make the bricks and the tile and the glass to the timber mill workers who make the frames and the trusses. So it’s actually good news and really one of the reasons why we extended HomeBuilder is that it has been so successful in supporting those jobs that we wanted to feed the pipeline of those projects all the way through 2021 and as I’m told by the Master Builders Association and Housing Industry Association, this extension will see that pipeline actually go into the middle of 2022. So some certainty for the residential construction industry which employs up to one million Australians, that there’ll be enough work for them and that really is what motivated the program to begin with and of course, is motivating the extension. But of course, a great by-product of it is something that I know that you’re passionate about, Patricia, and that is helping people get into their first home. A $25,000 grant up until 31st December, a $15,000 grant between 1st January and 31st March, is helping first home buyers get into a home when they wouldn’t otherwise be able to.
Patricia Karvelas:
Michael Sukkar, thanks for joining me this afternoon.
Minister Sukkar:
Thanks so much, Patricia.