Sharri Markson:
I’m joined now by the Federal Housing Minister and Assistant Treasurer, Michael Sukkar, in Melbourne. Michael, thank you for your time. Just before we get onto coronavirus, I want to ask about your reaction to Malcolm Turnbull’s book, which I spoke about just a moment ago and I understand that you’ve also read?
Minister Sukkar:
Well, Sharri, I’ve read the parts of the book that have been outlined publicly and some other pieces that have been sent to me. I think that it’s clearly a book that’s seeking to get square. It’s, I think, consistent with the quite appalling behaviour we have seen since he left office so in that respect, it’s not surprising.
Sharri Markson:
In the book, Turnbull claims that you and Morrison – so that was when Scott Morrison was Treasurer and you were still the Assistant Treasurer – that you actually wanted to ban negative gearing. Is this true?
Minister Sukkar:
Well no, it’s not true, Sharri and I think that there’s probably many aspects that I would take with a grain of salt and that is certainly one. We went to two elections opposing Labor’s policy and the Australian people backed us in and for very good reasons. What we did seek to do and what we did do, when the PM was Treasurer and I was his Assistant Treasurer, was to curb some of the expenses that were being expensed against investment properties, including travel, we did make those changes. We also sought to ensure that there were macro, prudential changes to take some of the heat out of the investor market, again something that we did. So, those are the things that we wanted to do, those are the things that we did and we quite rightly opposed Labor’s policy, which I would note, Sharri, is still Labor policy, even in this environment that we are in right now, it’s still Labor policy to abolish negative gearing and to double capital gains tax. So, quite an appalling policy from Labor that we’ve opposed for a very long time, the PM and I have opposed that consistently and will continues to.
Sharri Markson:
I will ask you a bit more about the housing market in a moment but just lastly on Turnbull’s book, he was actually Communications Minister – setting the laws around the media landscape – and yet he revealed in his book, that’s out tomorrow, that he started the green-left website The Guardian in Australia, that he was instrumental in starting it or did the deal for it to start here and he even handpicked it’s senior journalists. Do you think that this was a conflict of interest that he should have declared when he was Communications Minister?
Minister Sukkar:
Well I think that it’s pretty clear to most fair-minded people that that is something that you would think, as a matter of probity, would be declared although I do note that the Australian editor of The Guardian, Lenore Taylor, has very different views on the role that Malcolm Turnbull played in the establishment of The Guardian. So, depending on who is telling the truth, Malcolm Turnbull or Lenore Taylor, yes, it’s certainly something that for a number of reasons, should’ve been disclosed and I’m quite surprised that it was not disclosed but that now that it has been disclosed, I think highlights just the position that the former Prime Minister adopted on many issues. Obviously, The Guardian…interrupted.
Sharri Markson:
There’s actually just been some breaking news in relation to Turnbull. There’s a bid to have him expelled permanently, for life, from the Liberal Party because of his book and some of the breach of confidences that have been included in it. Should he be expelled from the Liberal Party?
Minister Sukkar:
Well I haven’t seen those reports, Sharri, and in the end, that would be a matter for the New South Wales division of the Liberal Party and that’s ultimately a decision for them. I think it would be very sad to see that happen, but as I said at the beginning, some of the quite appalling behaviour we’ve seen from the former Prime Minister since he left office, I can understand would be a reason why people would be calling for that but I think that that would be a sad thing to do and in the end, would be a decision for the New South Wales division.
Sharri Markson:
Now look, on coronavirus, you’ve obviously been working very closely with the Treasurer, Josh Frydenberg. What would the ramifications for the economy – and for our unemployment levels - be if we did not lift restrictions in the middle of May?
Minister Sukkar:
Well, Sharri, I don’t think that you can pinpoint a time. The Prime Minister has been very clear here through the National Cabinet – and I think that he’s been vindicated in the approach that he’s taken – that this is not a short-term fix, he’s preparing Australians for a six-month problem. I think that it’s self-evident to everybody that the longer the restrictions continue, the more harm that is done to the economy. Having said that, the harm that would be done to the economy if restrictions were lifted prematurely and we had a second round of serious cases and infections, I think would be even more devastating. So, there are some very, very important things to weigh-up here, they are being considered. I think that if you look at where Australia has landed on dealing with the coronavirus pandemic, I’d put up our actions against any other country around the world, as being the model for how you deal with this pandemic. So, I propose a great deal of trust in the PM and the National Cabinet, I think that they’ve been vindicated in the decisions that they’ve taken thus far. We’ve got to manage that delicate balancing act and in doing so, the PM has made clear from the start that, whenever he’s spoken about protecting lives and importantly, protecting livelihoods, he has indicated very strongly that we as a Government are very alive to the economic issues that are being caused by the health issues that are being caused by the pandemic.
Sharri Markson:
Have you got some estimates on how much you think Australian house prices will drop this year? There’ve been estimates around that it could be up to 15 per cent. Do you think that it could be greater than that?
Minister Sukkar:
Well, Sharri, obviously there are many people in the market who have independently spoken about their views on where the housing market would go. Obviously, we’ve got a very sound and very stable banking system. The banks have made very clear that they are supporting people who are in trouble throughout this time so I think that provides a great deal of underpinning to the Australian housing market which means that we perhaps won’t see the volatility that other jurisdictions would have and I think in this respect, we must commend the banks who have – quite rightfully – been criticised in previous years but have certainly come to the floor at the moment. So, I think that the Australian housing market, where it goes is very hard to tell, Sharri, but the conduct of the banks, the strength in our banking system, means that Australians should have some level of protection and certainly home-owners have some level of protection as to the value of their biggest asset but there’s no doubt that it will have an impact on the housing market.
Sharri Markson:
Look just lastly, there’s been a lot of concern today around a tracing App that the Government plans to start this week called COVID trace. Will you be downloading it and how concerned are you about the Government’s ability to delete or willingness to delete the data of everyone’s movements after coronavirus?
Minister Sukkar:
Well, Sharri, of course I would download it. As and when we have a product that we suggest to the Australian people that they download, I would lead by example and do that. I think that from my perspective, from my families perspective of living through social distancing and isolation, that if downloading that App and ensuring that proper protections were in place for privacy, if downloading that App meant that we could get back to some modicum of normal life and seeing our extended family, our parents, our loved-ones, our friends, then I would absolutely download it in a heartbeat.
Sharri Markson:
Thank you very much, Michael Sukkar, I appreciate your time.
Minister Sukkar:
Thanks, Sharri.