GREENWOOD:
Tax cuts are quite clearly front and foremost of people's minds right now. People can't put in their tax returns right now, they're waiting to see what happens in our Parliament. Well last night, as we told you, the tax cut package did pass in its entirety through the House of Representatives, in fact in the end, Labor voted with it. Now, what's happening since then is they're wanting to see what happens in the Senate. The centre alliance, you sense, is going to go with the Government. The Labor Party is going to oppose it unless it's split. The Government doesn't want to split it. It may very well come down to one senator. That senator is Jacqui Lambie, the Tasmanian Senator. Here's what she had to say today.
LAMBIE:
I'm still talking about whether it's stage one or two we put through. I'm doing that with Labor and I'm doing that with Liberal, whether we hold off for those stage three. So I'm still sitting on that line but I certainly would like to see those the others, certainly stage one and two, put through.
GREENWOOD:
Because those tax cuts are urgent and you heard it from the Reserve Bank Governor Philip Lowe, after that interest rate decision yesterday to cut interest rates. Philip Lowe made a speech in Darwin last night where again he pleaded with Government to move more quickly to provide the stimulus that ultimately the Reserve Bank is running out of.
LOWE:
In the board's judgment, the easing of monetary policy last month and this month will help promote our collective welfare. At the same time, though, we recognise that the benefits are not evenly distributed across the community and there are some down sides to monetary easing and it's partly for these reasons, that over recent times I've been drawing attention to the fact that as a nation, we have options other than monetary easing for putting us on a better path.
GREENWOOD:
So what are those options? Let's now go to the Assistant Treasurer and also the Minister for Housing, Michael Sukkar, who clearly has to think about some of those options right now. Michael, many thanks for your time here on the program.
SUKKAR:
Great to be with you, Ross.
GREENWOOD:
So the Labor Party says it wants to move stage two tax cuts forward to try to give some immediate stimulus to households. Why would the Government not relent on that to try to bring forward those stage two tax cuts?
SUKKAR:
Well, Ross, the answer's simple. Our plan for tax relief we took to an election. Labor's plan for tax relief, supposedly, which changes on a daily basis, is what they are now advocating for.
GREENWOOD:
So let's forget the Labor Party for a moment. Let's go to what is sensible right now. The Reserve Bank Governor is calling for a more immediate tax assistance to come through. You sure have got a plan but plans change, the economy changes, circumstances change, is there not enough evidence out there, economic evidence right now, to say that households, if you want to stimulate spending, need some assistance and need it from the Government?
SUKKAR:
Well, Ross, what I think the Reserve Bank Governor was suggesting is that our tax plan, which will deliver $1,080 for individuals or up to $2,160 for couples, is needed. I mean, he is agreeing with the plan that we took to the election, the plan that Australians endorsed and I read his comments as squarely supporting those, and I think, encouraging Labor Party and indeed, the entire Parliament, to pass our tax plan which does have immediate tax relief, it banks that tax relief in stage two and it provides significant structural relief into the future. This is our short, medium and longterm tax plan but the immediate relief that the Governor was talking about is exactly what we're delivering and I think he was sending a not so subtle message to the Labor Party who is standing in the way of these tax cuts to not do so.
GREENWOOD:
Okay, but you're wriggle room is those stage two tax cuts. Let's leave aside the $150 billion plus that would be sent on the stage three tax cuts, which I think are necessary. I think they're a heroic, genuine tax reform but the stage two tax cuts, and Anthony Albanese on this program told me look, they can bring it forward, those stage two tax cuts, they would still end up, according to the forecasts, with a surplus. Is this really, Michael, about the Government trying to preserve its economic credentials by delivering the surpluses that you promise? And this is one reason why you will not, or don't want to contemplate bringing forward those stage two tax cuts?
SUKKAR:
No, Ross, it's about delivering what we took to the Australian people just six weeks ago. I think you would rightly criticise, and indeed there would be many commentators who would rightly criticise us if we didn't seek to do what we put to the Australian people just six weeks ago in an election. Let's not forget, in your interview with the Leader of the Opposition, Anthony Albanese, he was arguing against stage two tax cuts just six weeks ago. So he's had a conversion on the road to Damascus but the difference between his suggestion and ours is that ours is well thought through, ours is not something that has been thought up on the fly just to avoid a fight in the Labor caucus, which is really what has led him to the position he is in today. Ours is a well thought through plan and, of course, we take into account, Ross, a whole heap of factors including our determination to return the budget back to surplus. Of course, that's a consideration. But here we are delivering, I think, unprecedented tax relief. When it was announced in the budget that Josh Frydenberg handed down, I mean I think there was so much commentary at the time about just how significant the tax relief was and that it was going to land into the hands of 10 million Australian taxpayers just at the time that the economy needs it and that's why we're very determined to stick to what we took to the Australian people and what they strongly endorsed.
GREENWOOD:
You talk about the hands of 10 million Australians right there, but it's the hands of one person, one Australian right now that might really determine whether these tax cuts get through or not and that is Senator Jacqui Lambie, the Tasmanian senator. I did play the grab there a little earlier from Jacqui Lambie. Are you confident that Jacqui Lambie really does understand the issues, that she will support the tax package in its entirety?
SUKKAR:
Well, look, Ross, you know, we're putting this forward to the Senate tomorrow. We're calling on Labor and all of the nongovernment senators, including Jacqui Lambie, to support these income tax reforms in full, again, that we took to an election just six weeks ago. I know the leader of the Senate, Mathias Cormann, is in discussions with a whole range of those cross-benchers, including Jacqui. And, look, I suppose, I am hopeful, that common sense will prevail, that one, we were very upfront about the plan that we took to the Australian people and, two, this makes eminent sense. We provide immediate tax relief, which, I think, you know, everybody now agrees with, they didn't always agree with it but they now agree with it. We provide for medium term structural relief in stage two, which, again, the Labor Party were arguing against six weeks ago, now they've converted, you know, pretty late in the piece but we welcome that. And stage three, which provides longterm structural reform, which I'm pleased that you support, Ross, and I know many commentators support because so often in Australian politics, people call out for longterm structural reform and decry the lack of it in politics. This is one occasion where we've got it and this plan all hangs together.
GREENWOOD:
It all hangs together, though, on but you understand, Michael, it all hangs together on Jacqui Lambie potentially. She's the one vote you might need. Now the fact is that she wants you to wave Tasmania's $157 million social housing debt, is that something that you would even contemplate? It's not in the budget, would you contemplate it? Say, for example, if it comes down to passing your whole tax package, $157 million to Tasmanian Government to overcome their social housing debt, that's not a bad deal, I would have thought?
SUKKAR:
Well, Ross, look, as I said, we're putting it forward to all senators, including Jacqui. We think the merits of the tax cuts stand on their own two feet. We think the argument supporting those tax cuts are so strong and so powerful that, in the end, I mean I have an optimism that the Senate will pass just as the House of Reps passed them yesterday. You know, inevitably, and you know this, Ross, in Australian politics, there's always, in these instances, you know, questions about whether your horse trade X, Y and Z for an outcome. The reality is, in this instance, we are putting these forward and we think they'd stand on their own two feet.
GREENWOOD:
Now a final within about Jacqui Lambie before I let you go on this and that is you might have noticed that Jacqui Lambie has hired Cameron Amos, formally of the Australian Institute, more recently who was working with the Green senator Sarah HansonYoung. He's with Jacqui Lambie and also on top of this, according to the margin call column in the 'Australian', Anna Bateman, who also is from the Australia Institute, which is a leftwing think tank, has also joined Jacqui Lambie's office. Now, which way do you reckon her allegiances are really moving if you've got two people who come from the very left of the political spectrum giving her the advice as to which way she should vote?
SUKKAR:
Well, look, I think, Ross, in the end, my experience with Jacqui is she's a pretty strong-willed person. I suspect she will be the one that makes the decisions and, of course, you know, staff and the advice that staff provide is relevant but I think Jacqui's the type of person, Ross, who will be making the decisions herself.
GREENWOOD:
I tell you what, good to have you on the program. I was going to talk to you very quickly, just one small one while I've got you here.
SUKKAR:
Yeah, sure.
GREENWOOD:
I know I'm going to talk to your counterpart so she will no doubt is the minister responsible. This issue about insurance in building and just a quick one. Quite clearly, if certifiers, if architects, if surveyors can't get professional indemnity insurance right now, it needs a government response. The Property Institute is calling on the Federal Government to intervene here. Is there much you in your position can do as the Minister for Housing?
SUKKAR:
I mean it is the responsibility of Minister Andrews and I know that she's working through the Building Ministers Forum, which she chairs, to develop some solutions. I mean in the end, the issues around private building surveyors is squarely within the State and Territory remit. I mean they perform functions on behalf of State and Territory governments and we would hope that they are able to address those problems but I know that Minister Andrews is ready to do all she can to support those efforts and she's been showing great leadership on this issue and I think, Ross, you know, you haven't overstated the issue. I think it is a significant problem and that's why it's certainly, I know, focused the Minister's mind as to how she can support what is really, rightly, a function of State and Territory governments but, you know, we find ourselves where we are and I know she's doing everything she possibly can to address that issue.
GREENWOOD:
Terrific. Michael Sukkar is our Assistant Treasurer and also the Minister for Housing. We will speak with Karen Andrews a little bit later on the program. Michael, I appreciate your time this evening.
SUKKAR:
Great to be with you, Ross. Thanks so much.