ALI MOORE:
The mid‑year budget's coming up. How do you give more cost‑of‑living relief, and we have been talking about it on this station for the last 24 hours, just the enormous demand that second bite has had from people who can't afford to put food on the table. How do you give cost‑of‑living relief without fuelling inflation?
STEPHEN JONES:
It's a tricky balance that we've got to get right, and in relation to the mid‑year economic outlook and the statement the Treasurer will make in a few weeks' time, what you won't see is any big lurches or changes in direction. We know that households are doing it tough, we know that small businesses are doing it tough, but what we can't do is, you know, fuel the inflation problem with another big raft of spending measures, where you've got to ensure that any of the things we do are targeted and actually have the impact of reducing inflation, not increasing it. And that's why when we looked at the things we could do that would make a difference, we looked at childcare and we put money into childcare to bring down the fees that households are paying in the area of childcare, we looked at cheap medicines, we looked at seeing your GP, and we looked at energy bill relief, and also some great stuff which has two bangs, it's the fee‑free TAFE, which is about providing relief to people who are starting an apprenticeship or a traineeship, or retraining, but also that has the added benefit of improving our skills problem, which is a real issue we're leaning into at the moment.
MOORE:
Well, if everything is designed to not fuel inflation, what do you with your so‑called Stage 3 tax cuts? Committed to them, you're not changing them, but how can putting more money in people's pockets not be inflationary?
JONES:
Yeah, look, we've got no change in the direction in relation to that, and can I say, when the Reserve Bank, which independently sets monetary policy in this country, looks at inflation outlook over the next 12 months, it factors these things in. So it knows well in advance. These things have been legislated for over three years now. So they know when these are going to hit, and what the impacts of those are going to be. But the short answer, no change in direction there, Ali.
MOORE:
But do you expect, and are you anticipating that they will be inflationary?
JONES:
Look, no I'm not, not based on the information that is currently in front of us, Ali. So all of our strategies are based on ensuring that we can continue to enjoy the fantastic jobs growth that we've got in this country, I mean 14 million people in work, greatest jobs growth of any government in its first term over the last 12 months. That's a great story. We want to ensure that we can maintain that high level of employment as we ride through the next 12 months, and pleasingly, the OECD, which had a look at what we were doing here and compared us to other countries around the world gave us a tick of approval in terms of our fiscal strategy.
MOORE:
Yes, they did some interesting things to say about the direction of interest rates. I think a lot of people are hoping very much that they're right. But can I ask you, Stephen Jones, it's not often that you get the State Treasurer, in this state anyway, write an opinion piece for a national newspaper which Tim Pallas did this morning, and he is leading the charge by the State Treasurers who are all meeting tomorrow to ensure that the "no worse off" guarantee in relation to the GST carve‑up is extended. It's an important guarantee, he says that for Victoria it would mean that we would be a lot worse off if it is removed. It's due to expire in 2027. Will it be continued?
JONES:
Look, Tim's a great Treasurer, and we've got very good relations with him, with the Premier, and in fact with all of the other State and Territory leaders and Treasurers, and we've committed both publicly and privately that we're going to work through all of these issues, GST included. As you said in your introduction, it's not just the GST that is the subject of discussions between ourselves, the Treasurers and the leaders; we've got health and hospital care agreements with the NDIS, we've got infrastructure discussions going on. We know that every State and Territory budget, like the Commonwealth's, is facing pressure at the moment, and we're all trying to manage the money in the best way possible and ensure that everyone gets a fair go here. We're confident that we can work through these issues with the States and Territories and come to a landing.
MOORE:
But just on that "no worse off" guarantee, if you look at where it actually came from, it came from the previous government, and changes that were being made, particularly in relation to West Australia's share of the GST, there was a feeling from Labor in Opposition at that point that it would leave the States worse off. You pushed for the "no worse off" guarantee, so you can't really remove it, can you? I mean you argued for it back then because you were saying that it would be unfair if the States didn't have it. So how would you justify removing it?
JONES:
Well, this is one of the reasons why we've commissioned the Productivity Commission to have a look at how this is working, and the operation of GST distributions more broadly, it's due to report by the end of 2026, and that's a relevant input into the discussions we're having. But I guess the commitment that we've made, and I want your listeners to understand, is that we are not a government that wants to create division, that wants to have a stand‑up fight. This is a Prime Minister and a Treasurer and an economic team that wants to find the areas where we can agree, and there's a whole heap of issues –
MOORE:
That seems to me from –
JONES:
– there's a whole heap of issues –
MOORE:
– from reading Tim Pallas's piece this morning, it seems that me that if it's all going to be rainbows and unicorns, then you are going to be extending that "no worse off" guarantee.
JONES:
Well, rainbows and unicorns happen at the end of the discussion, then you have a lot of hard working through the issues before you get there. And like I said, there's a lot of things we're dealing with at the moment between the States and the Commonwealth. We've got the GST, critical discussion, important, we know how important it is to State revenues. We've also got the issues of budgetary pressures in other areas of State service deliveries, self‑care –
MOORE:
NDIS being a key one.
JONES:
– in particular, and the NDIS, so these are all big issues that we've got to work through –
MOORE:
And just on NDIS –
JONES:
– and we're committed to do it.
MOORE:
– I know that you're not the Minister, but there's clearly a push for the States to pick up more of the slack on that when you're trying to reduce the growth rate of the NDIS. Do you have in your minds a figure that you want the States to contribute?
JONES:
Look, there's a push from the Commonwealth to ensure that this great Labor scheme, this great thing that is manifestly changing the lives of people with disabilities and their families, is sustainable and is on a sustainable footing, so that whoever has my job in another 10 years when you're interviewing them, they can continue to be talking about this great scheme. It's not on a sustainable footing at the moment, and we want to work in partnership with the States, because we jointly fund this scheme. We want to work in partnership with the States to ensure that we can get the scheme on a sustainable footing. We've targeted 8 per cent growth rate, I can tell you it's significantly more than that at the moment.
MOORE:
But it's 14 per cent at the moment, so you –
JONES:
Which is not sustainable, it's just not sustainable. So we've got to ensure that we have in place the right measures that look after people with disabilities and their families, ensure that they get the care and the support that they need, but bring the scheme back into a sustainable growth trajectory, and it's nowhere near that at the moment. We need to work with the States to achieve that.
MOORE:
Minister, we're almost out of time, but I do know that you've announced today a new mandatory industry code for the private sector to try to stop scammers. Would you have got it open for consultation at the moment. How do you possibly put in place a code, and how do you police that the private sector's got robust, what you're calling robust measures in place?
JONES:
This will be a world first when we achieve it, and it's about ensuring that across telecommunications, banking and social media platforms, they are taking steps, agreed steps that will prevent, detect, disrupt and respond to scams; high standards, high bar across all of the businesses within those sectors. If they don't meet them, there will be fines and penalties and potential compensation that will flow from that. I'm focused on obligation, because I know when I talk to banks, and I talk to telcos, I talk to social media platforms, they all agree that the $3 billion that we're losing to scammers that is growing exponentially is bad for everybody, it's a tragedy for the individuals involved, and it undermines confidence in online commerce, we've got to attack it, we need a Team Australia effort. And the Codes of Practice are about establishing the framework, the obligations across all the businesses within those industries. Once we nail that, we'll move to other sectors of the economy, everybody knowing exactly what their obligations are, consumers knowing what their rights are. We want to make Australia the destination of last resort for these international gangs who are targeting us at the moment.
MOORE:
Stephen Jones, thanks for talking to Drive.
JONES:
Before you go, aren't you going to hit me up for a donation?
MOORE:
Well, this depends, Minister. Is that your money or our money?
JONES:
It's absolutely my money, but you better hit me up for a donation, a great cause, well done.
MOORE:
Right. Well, okay, I can tell you, I'm just going to refresh the donation page. We have raised $527,830. That's not bad.
JONES:
Sensational effort. That's a fantastic effort. Well done Victoria.
MOORE:
So what do you reckon, you should round it up to $528,000 for us?
JONES:
I'll make sure that I make a great contribution to your effort.
MOORE:
1800 263 283. Minister, thank you.
JONES:
Good to be with you.
MOORE:
That is the Assistant Treasurer there, Stephen Jones.