ALI MOORE:
Can we have a chat about the Commonwealth Bank? We’ve talked about this in the last 2 days in this program. The fee for withdrawing cash for some customers over the counter or at an Australia Post site which then they backflipped on yesterday while they consult with the affected customers. Are you urging the bank to can the fee forever?
STEPHEN JONES:
Yeah. Yes, I am. I think it was a massive own goal and it’s swimming against the tide. I think Australians, obviously, most Australians for most of their transactions have moved to a tap and go some form of cashless transaction. But there’s a large group who hold the use of cash very near and dear, and I support them, and I want them to have access to cash. And I thought this move by the Commonwealth Bank was wrong, and I called it out, and I’m glad they’ve rethought their position.
MOORE:
And you did call it out. But am I right that the bank’s leadership, well, I don’t know whether – what the connection was, but the Treasurer actually rang them and told them to have a rethink, is that right?
JONES:
Yes, there was a conversation between the Treasurer and the bank. And entirely appropriate, responding to strong public backlash from that decision. And we wanted to make that point known directly to the bank.
MOORE:
Did they need the Treasurer of the country to make it known to them? I’m just wondering about the appropriateness of that. I mean, they are, you know, publicly, as in shareholder‑owned, private enterprise. They’re not a government enterprise. Is it appropriate the Treasurer rings them up and tells them to look?
JONES:
Look, wasn’t privy to the conversation, but I don’t think there’s anything inappropriate. In fact, I think most Australians expect us to do that. If we think a company, particularly one is important as a bank, has made a decision, we think it needs to be rethought, then I don’t think there’s anything inappropriate about having that conversation directly.
MOORE:
You’re listening to the Assistant Treasurer, Stephen Jones. Stephen Jones, how weak do you think our economy is at the moment? Those growth numbers yesterday showed that we would pretty much have ground to a halt if it hadn’t been for government spending. And yet, you know, all of us sit here and listen to the Reserve Bank, which is telling us there’s still too much heat in the economy to cut rates. It’s a, I guess, a fairly confusing picture. How do you see it?
JONES:
I think everyone who’s listening to your program will understand that Australians are doing it tough. And whether they’re households, whether they’re small businesses, trading conditions are very difficult. That’s a result of very restrictive monetary policy, a high interest rate environment by the Reserve Bank, and that’s having an impact. It’s having an impact on retail sales, it’s having an impact on the amount of spare cash that people have got at the end of a fortnight to pay for basic goods and services. Which is why as a government, we’ve looked at ways to provide some cost relief through energy bill relief, medicine relief, childcare and of course the tax cuts, which have had a big impact in putting extra dollars into average Australians pockets.
MOORE:
Is there a feeling or a sense within the government, they are entirely independent, the Reserve Bank, but do yesterday’s numbers bring an interest rate cut forward?
JONES:
Well, I’m not going to lecture the Reserve Bank. I’ve made the observation that Australians are doing it tough, and as you’ve observed, growth in the economy is very, very modest indeed. And that’s clearly a result of international pressures and monetary policy here in Australia. I think there is one bit of good news in all of this, there’s a couple of bits of good news in all of this and clearly it’s good to see wages rising again. And I’m not going to overstate the fact that, you know, disposable income, real disposable income, has grown in this quarter modestly, but it has grown, and we’re starting to see that turn the corner as a result of wages moving again. That’s a good thing. And I guess the other point I’d make is we’ve got spectacular employment numbers. We’ve never seen a length of time where this many jobs have been created, albeit when the economy has been slowing down. But employment has held up, and that’s a sensational result. Businesses, the Australian Government, and everyone working together to try and keep as many people in jobs as possible.
MOORE:
But then that goes to the issue, though, doesn’t it? Because the Reserve Bank then cites that employment number when it’s not cutting interest rates because they have it in their heads that we needed so many people to be unemployed before, you know, inflation will be where it should go.
JONES:
Well, the Reserve Bank’s got a dual mandate and that dual mandate is employment and inflation. And I’m not in the camp that says that we’ve got to see unemployment rising before we can have inflation under control. I think what we’ve seen over the course of the last quarter, in fact, over the course of the last year, we’ve seen inflation coming down. It’s now within the Reserve Bank Board’s target rate, and I think that’s a good thing. We’ve held employment numbers up. I think that’s a good thing. I’m not going to overstate the fact. I know that Australians are doing it tough, and I know trading conditions are tough, but I think there are green shoots there, and I think it gives us hope that, you know, we can start to turn the corner.
MOORE:
And if we can also have a look at the announcement that you made yesterday and we talked about it on the program, the fact that you’re introducing a new class of financial advisers and we will now be able to, once you’ve passed this legislation, to get advice, financial advice through our super funds, which is something that they have not been able to do. So, I suppose, more holistic financial advice that can cover people’s situations. Why the need for a new class of financial advisers? And isn’t the risk that if they are less qualified and they are employed by the super fund, your financial advice is not necessarily going to be the sort of independent financial advice a lot of people need?
JONES:
Yeah, great question. First, why? We’ve got 5 million Australians either at or approaching retirement. They’re hungry for some information and advice on how to manage their superannuation and their retirement affairs. Today, they’re ringing their super fund, and they’re saying, what should I do? I’m about to retire. And the superannuation fund, more times than not, has got to say to them, because of the law, I’m sorry, I can’t answer that question. We’re not allowed to provide that advice. And for most Australians. They don’t have the means or the capacity to pay $5,000, $6,000 to go to a financial planner. We need to have a solution which meets those needs. So, that’s what the objective is, to ensure that those people have advice and information available to them with tight guardrails around it for the consumer protections that you’re talking about. And all the obvious conflicts are dealt with. So, all of those things will be a feature of the new law –
MOORE:
So, can I put a very specific example to you? Let’s say you’re talking to your financial adviser that’s come through your super fund that you’re paying for, but they know that you can get a better deal on fees in another fund that would probably suit you better. Will they tell you that?
JONES:
They’ll be required to do that. They’ll be required to put their interests, the interests of their member or the customer, ahead of their own and ahead of their own business’s. And that’s a feature of the best financial interest duty and the obligation that will continue to be applying to these advisers. So, we’re not going to go backwards on any of those consumer protections. In fact, we’ll be very specific about the sorts of information and advice that these advisers can provide to the members of a fund. But I guess what we’ve got to do is ask the question compared to what and compared to what is today, people are being turned away. There are not enough licenced financial advisers. There’s about 16,000 licenced financial advisers in the country. Now I’m trying to remove some of the red tape which prevents them from taking on more clients, and I’ll do that. And I’m trying to ensure that we’re growing the number of financial advisers, but we can’t do that overnight –
MOORE:
Well, we got rid of a whole lot, didn’t we, after the Royal Commission?
JONES:
Exactly, indeed. And a lot of that was very necessary. But what – this is an important point I need to make. Today, people are being turned away instead of going to somebody who knows what they’re talking about. Going to Instagram, they’re going to TikTok, they’re going to the internet, where they are captive to scammers, criminals, unlicensed and untrained advisers, and they’re not getting the information. At best, they’re making bad decisions. At worst, they’re losing their life savings to a scam, and we can’t have that. We can’t leave that situation unaddressed. And that’s what those reforms are all about.
MOORE:
Stephen Jones, just a final question. Interesting opinion piece by Niki Savva in the papers this morning talking about Anthony Albanese’s leadership. Just 2 questions for you. Do you think he’ll take the party to the next election? And how do you rate the chances of Jim Chalmers, you are his assistant, being your next leader?
JONES:
Oh, look, I have the great privilege of working in the Prime Minister’s ministry. They’re both excellent colleagues. Anthony Albanese will take the government to the next election and in my view, he’ll win it. Love Niki, love the way she writes, but I don’t agree with her on this one.
MOORE:
You don’t reckon that Jim Chalmers would be the next leader?
JONES:
I think Jim Chalmers is an excellent Treasurer, and he’s doing a good job steering our economic team through difficult circumstances. I think Anthony Albanese is a fantastic Prime Minister and a leader of a great team and he’ll take us to the next election. And I think he’s going to win it, Ali.
MOORE:
Even though he’s having a bit of trouble in the polls.
JONES:
Look, polls come and go, you know.
MOORE:
Only one poll that counts. Yes, I do. Yes. I should stop asking that question.
JONES:
We are rock solid, 100 per cent behind Anthony and the team. We’ve got the policies, we’ve got the direction. Peter Dutton, in our view, poses a great risk to the economy and the country. If we’d followed his advice, Australia would be in recession today. We don’t need that. We’ve got a plan for the future and that’s what we’ll be campaigning around.
MOORE:
Thank you very much for talking to us.
JONES:
Great to be with you.