DAVID KOCH:
Well, new figures from the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission show many of us cannot spot a scam. In 2021 losses in Australia were estimated at over $2 billion. This year – from January to August – the figure closer to $4 billion, with nearly 147,000 cases reported to authorities. The losses are up 100 per cent in just eight months. The top ways we’re being scammed are phishing, which is when you’re tricked into revealing personal information by impostors, paying because of a threat, identity theft, false billing, prize and lottery scams, giving someone remote access to your computer, online shopping and hacking. Joining me now the Assistant Treasurer, Stephen Jones. Good morning to you. Minister, are you shocked by these figures? And what are Australians doing wrong? How come we can’t spot them?
STEPHEN JONES:
Look, we’re disturbed by the figures but not shocked, Kochie. Doubling over the last 12 months sends a message to Government that whatever has been happening we need to do much more. A tragedy at any point in time, but when Australians are struggling with cost of living increases, to have their life savings ripped away from them is just unbearable. We’ve got a whole‑of‑government strategy that we’re rolling out, and I’ll have more to say about that this morning. It starts with prevention and then looks at what we can do once we spot a scam in motion, and then if something has gone wrong ensuring that there’s some rectification available after the fact – so ID repair, look at what we can do to recover money. But we need a whole‑of‑government approach.
KOCH:
Okay.
JONES:
That $4 billion number that you mentioned, it’s probably understated because we know about less than 13 per cent of scams are actually reported.
KOCH:
Okay. What are you going to do about it? Because look, scammers have been using my photo and dodgy quotes from me to scam people for years. They appear on Facebook, they appear on LinkedIn, they appear on that Taboola feed, on big mainstream websites, and I can do nothing about it. Here at Channel Seven, we get sued by you and the ACCC if we run a dodgy ad. Why can’t Facebook, why can’t Instagram, why can’t LinkedIn take the same responsibility as mainstream media groups? I had a bloke on the weekend contact me through Facebook abusing me because he’s lost $30,000 on a scam that used my picture and dodgy comments from me.
JONES:
Damn good question, Kochie – because the law at the moment doesn’t allow for it. And we want to change the law.
KOCH:
So, you will change the law on this?
JONES:
We are adamant that the law needs to change. We need to drag it into the 21st century.
KOCH:
Good.
JONES:
Social media platforms need to be accountable for the material that they’re publishing. If they are told that you’ve got dodgy stuff online, unlawful stuff online which is enabling criminals and they are not taking it down, then there will be fines and penalties which apply. We also want to work with the banks and ensure that the wallet at the end of the scam is locked off as well to ensure that we can move much more quickly, which is why today I’m announcing that the Albanese government is going to set up a new anti‑scam centre inside the ACCC. Prevention, then once we detect something in motion, locking it down as soon as possible and getting on to the social media platforms, as you suggested, and ensure that they have a legal obligation to shut these things down at source.
KOCH:
Okay.
JONES:
There’s a bunch of things that should be happening that haven’t been happening. We want to change that.
KOCH:
Stephen Jones, that is music to my ears, because not only are people losing thousands of dollars, it damages my reputation. I see my photo online saying things I never said about Bitcoin or whatever, and people lose money because they think it’s me.
JONES:
Sports stars, TV stars, personalities, they’re all having their identity used by these criminals – and let’s call them for what they are.
KOCH:
Yep.
JONES:
These are economic criminals ripping off Australians. We want to crack down on it at source. Yes, the social media platforms are a part of it. The telecommunications companies are part of it as well because a lot of this is happening through email and SMS as well. But we want to ensure that every point – every point – in the process there’s a government strategy directed at it to ensure that Australians aren’t being ripped off to the tune of $4 billion a year. That’s money that should be in the small business or the household, not flowing to these criminals and scumbags who are ripping Australians off.
KOCH:
Yeah. And it’s just heartbreaking for our viewers who get sucked in by these sorts of things. Stephen Jones, keep us up to date. Step in the right direction – sooner the better. The heftier the fines the better, because they should have the same responsibility as traditional media groups. Thanks very much for joining us.
JONES:
Good to be with you.