GRAEME DAY:
This is 2ST, and there’s been a whole lot of things going on in politics, as we know this week, but there’s been some great initiatives put forward by the Albanese government. One of those is to do with scams. And to tell me about that this morning on the line, I’ve got someone that’s been working on it for a while, the Assistant Treasurer and Minister for Financial Services, as well as the Member for Whitlam locally, Stephen Jones. G’day, mate. How you going? Hello?
STEPHEN JONES:
Hey, Graeme. Good to be with you. I’m really well.
DAY:
Oh, that’s good. You dropped out there for a moment. I thought we’d have to ring the telecommunications minister and make a complaint, but no, it’s all right now.
JONES:
Very good.
DAY:
While things have been going on, nationally and around the world, you’ve been working away, the Albanese government, with a couple of things. One, the scam situation, which I know you’re proud of because you’ve been doing a lot of work personally on that, but also this social media thing with, with people that are under 16, that’s been something that has been a long time coming too, and a world first, really.
JONES:
Yeah. So, on the age 16, the social media age verification thing – this has been driven by parents. They want to have a bit more authority to have that conversation with their kids. And what they will regularly say is, well, if there was a law or a rule in place that said there’s an age ban, that’s a hell of a lot easier for us to have that conversation with our children. And so this is a provision that will put the obligation on the social media platforms to have an age verification mechanism.
DAY:
Which is very important, I know there’s been a lot of debate about it, but something had to be done because it was just getting out of hand, wasn’t it?
JONES:
Yeah. Look, the concern amongst parents and health groups and others is the bullying, the body dysmorphia and the social harms that are going on there. And the discussion that’s gone on, there’s been a few forums in New South Wales and South Australia and other places to discuss what the appropriate age is. That consensus has formed around 16 and that’ll go through to a National Cabinet meeting which is being held this morning.
DAY:
Now, another important thing that you’re implementing is a world first again, and that’s legislation with the Scam Prevention Framework. Just tell us what’s happening with that.
JONES:
Australians are losing about $7 million a day. Older Australians losing the majority of that through investment scams and the like. The Scam Prevention Framework looks right across the ecosystem – looks at how scams emerge, how they’re transmitted, how they reach their victim and obviously the money at the end of it – and says, right, the businesses involved in that ecosystem have got to do a lot more to prevent, to detect, to disrupt and report scams. So, telecommunications companies, social media platforms and banks will have new obligations on them, essentially to keep their customers safe, to keep their customers’ information safe and money safe. So, a social media platform, they’ve got to verify their advertisers, so somebody can’t be pretending to be a bank or a government agency posting stuff on there – people are falling for it and losing money as a result. People are just sick of getting the scam SMS messages and the phone calls – obligations on phone companies to block those calls, and then for banks to do much, much more to prevent money going into dodgy accounts. So, there you go, that’s the idea behind it. Tough fines and penalties if these big businesses aren’t doing their part to keep their customers’ money and information safe.
DAY:
We often hear about new initiatives like this one that’s implemented but people are a little bit cynical because they go, oh, yes, well, it’s a toothless tiger, what’s going to happen. But you’ve come out with a big stick as far as fines are concerned.
JONES:
Yeah, $50 million is the maximum penalty per incident. So, they’ve got to be high enough to create an incentive so that the business doesn’t say, oh, that’s just a cost of doing business in Australia. And let’s not forget, a lot of these are large multinational organisations who have annual turnovers in the billions. So, the fines have got to be big enough to create a real incentive for them to do the right thing by their customers.
DAY:
Now, just before you go, because I know you’re busy and you’ve got to head off, but I’ll just ask you about this. There’s a lot of talk, and has been a lot of talk in the last couple of days in regard to the new President of the United States and the tariffs, and how tariffs are going to affect Australia in all sorts of ways, from interest rates in regard to exporting, what have you. As you’ve sat around the table with the rest of the Cabinet, and you as the Minister for Financial Services, what – should we be concerned? What is the talk around the table in Parliament House?
JONES:
Well, as an open trading economy, we sell goods to the rest of the world. We like dealing with countries that don’t have tariffs because that just means that it’s harder for our businesses to sell our products overseas. So, there is a concern there. We’ll have to work through with the incoming administration to see whether there are concessions or exceptions that will be available to Australia as a key ally of the United States. But as a general rule, tariffs that go up around the rest of the world, they’re not good for business in Australia because it makes it harder for us to sell our goods.
DAY:
And what would be the backwash as far as, for example, home buyers, for people in small business, for pensioners? Are you concerned about that backwash as far as the Australian economy is concerned? Maybe not tomorrow, but moving down the track?
JONES:
Look, America is one of the biggest economies, the biggest economy in the world. What happens there affects the rest of the world. So, if you get a rise in inflation because of some of these measures, it will affect Australia. If you get a fall‑off in trade, it will affect Australia. So, we’ll have to engage with the incoming administration and see how we can make the best of it for Australia. But there’s no doubt when a big economy like, whether it’s China or the United States, they implement policies like this, it has an impact. We saw when China put tariffs and trade barriers on our agricultural goods. It really hurt the wine industry, it hurt the barley and the beef industry. So, these are the sorts of things we’ll be hoping to avoid.
DAY:
And in your own electorate, are you feeling the – are people telling you about the hurt? Because it’s mainly working class as it weaves its way through the Wollongong area and up the mountain to the Wingecarribee. Are you getting that feedback as far as the economy is concerned?
JONES:
It hasn’t – look, I know people are doing it tough. We’ve gone through a period of higher inflation. It’s halved over the last 2 years, but when we came into office it was 6 per cent. It’s now down around 2.5 per cent. So, that’s good. But by saying that, I don’t say everything’s rosy and life’s good. I know people are doing it tough and we’ve got to work harder to ensure that we can provide some relief and support to them wherever we can and make the best of a very difficult international situation.
DAY:
Have you had that conversation yet? Just in closing with Chris Minns in regard to – I know he’s been sitting around the table trying to get the answer – as far as development is concerned because in your electorate there is a council that takes 260 days to get a normal planning approval for a house through. Have you had the word to him saying, look, what are we going to do about this? Because it affects your electorate as it does NSW and the country.
JONES:
I have spoken to the Planning Minister as well. To his credit, Paul Scully is working to reduce those approval times, the red tape and the approval times. I’ll also – I’m meeting with the new mayor, Jesse Fitzpatrick this morning and I’ll be raising that with him as well. I’m actually – bit of a shout‑out – I’m doing a mobile office in Robertson in about 10 minutes. So, to any of your local listeners in Robertson who want to come and have a yarn with me about these or any other issues, that’s where I’ll be.
DAY:
Yeah. Okay. Well, I hope you do have a word to him, because the public is a little bit stumped when there’s discussions in regard to, oh, we want more staff in the planning department, we want more staff here that people can talk to over the counter, and then they vote $1.5 million for consultants and then a million dollars to take people on if they can’t get their DAs through. That’s not exactly the way to handle it, is it?
JONES:
Yeah, absolutely not. I share your – you know my views on this, we’ve discussed this in the past. We’ve got to get a faster approval rating. You know, it takes longer to get a house development approved than it does to build it. That just seems to me to have all the priorities in the wrong place. So, yeah, we need good planning laws, we need proper approval laws, but we’ve got to make this stuff happen quickly.
DAY:
Well, particularly in the Wingecarribee. I can’t believe that just up the road in Wollondilly they can get them through very, very quickly. They’re the fastest in New South Wales and then you’ve got the slowest in New South Wales as the neighbour. It’s just beyond thought to me.
JONES:
Yep. These are things that we’ve got to sort. You know, different council areas will have different challenges. I understand that. And there’s always going to be a group that says that we don’t want this built here like that. So, got to work through those issues as well. But I share your concern and frustration. We’ve got to get these approvals happening much quicker.
DAY:
Okay. I hope the discussion goes well. Thanks for your time.
JONES:
Good to be with you.
DAY:
Good on you, mate. Bye.