GREG JENETT:
All right, well, preparing the Budget represents months of work by certain ministers and a large portion of the federal Treasury Department. Assistant Treasurer Stephen Jones is one of the ministers in charge there and he joins us in the studio. Stephen, welcome back to the program. Inevitably, we’re going to get to the Budget, but it is not always widely recognised that you have portfolio responsibilities around social media corporations. Last time you were with us, we spoke about the eSafety Commissioner’s legal challenge against Elon Musk’s X. Now, the Federal Court has delivered a decision effectively not extending the temporary order to pull down the Wakeley stabbing videos. This seems like a setback. What happens next from the federal government’s point of view?
STEPHEN JONES:
Look, we’ll wait until the Federal Court issues its reasons for the decision, but there’s a fundamental principle at stake here. And that is, if you’re a company or anybody operating in Australia, then you’ve got to abide by Australian laws. And whether you’re one of the large multinational social media companies or whether you’re a corner store here in Australia, you’ve all got to abide by Australian laws. And if this decision by the Federal Court has shown that there’s gaps in our laws, then obviously we’ll have to go away and review that. But the underlying principle that we want to ensure that our social media platforms are safe, safe for consumers, and aren’t adding to violent and hate speech and inciting those sorts of behaviours. Absolutely fundamental principle of this government, and we’re adamant that we’ll be keeping our social media platforms safe.
JENNETT:
So, you could patch up laws, theoretically, that is an option available to you. Is it equally possible, though, that the eSafety Commissioner, with her lawyers, more importantly, might have overreached in seeking those temporary injunctions in the first place, particularly with the global aspect of their reach.
JONES:
Let’s just wait until the Federal Court hands down its reasons for decision and then we’ll have more light on that particular matter. But you asked me, will the government be looking to patch up our laws? We’ve already got a number of projects on foot, which includes legislative changes to ensure that our online platforms are safe. I’ve been working with my colleague Michelle Rowland, around the frauds and the scams and the criminal activities that are being propagated on social media platforms. It seems bizarre to us that these platforms seem more adamant that they want to take journalists down from their platform than criminals, and we think that’s got the priorities wrong. So, we’ve got some programs underway to ensure that we can reverse that, and ensure that we can have journalistic content online, and the criminals who are scamming Australians out of billions of dollars removed from these platforms. That’s just one job of work. There’s a bunch of other stuff that we’re working through, but in relation to the X matter, let’s have a look at what the Federal Court has actually said before we rush to judgement.
JENNETT:
Yes, last one on this. Did you view it then and do you still view it today as a government, as an important test case of the powers at the eSafety Commission’s disposal under the Online Safety Act so far?
JONES:
We backed the eSafety Commissioner. We thought she made – she’s independent of government, but she made the right decision, in our view, to ensure that that dangerous, violent, harmful material wasn’t being propagated online and encouraging and inciting that sort of behaviour here in Australia. And I think that’s something that the majority of Australians would support and would want their government backing in.
JENNETT:
On an associated front, before we get to the Budget, you might have heard today that Peter Malinauskas in South Australia has asked former High Court Chief Justice Robert French to examine whether you could have a state‑based approach to stronger parental controls over kids’ access to social media. Any initial thoughts from a federal point of view? Because obviously most people would err towards thinking, and maybe Robert French will too, that telecommunications are strictly a federal area of responsibility under the constitution. Any views on whether the states could or should go it alone?
JONES:
Look, I think what you see reflected in Peter’s announcement this morning is a growing concern and uneasiness from families, from businesses, from Australians at large about the influence and the impact that our social media platforms are having on children and right across the economy – the social impact and the economic impacts. And we think it’s right that Australian governments are able to have a look at this and set the rules that are appropriate for Australians and Australia.
JENNETT:
Governments plural, not just the federal government? You’re open to the states going their own way?
JONES:
The style of the Albanese government is that we want to work cooperatively with states. But as I’ve said earlier, we’ve already got some programs of work, whether it’s the mis‑and‑disinformation Bill that Michelle Rowland’s got before the House going directly to this, whether it’s the issues around access to minors on social media platforms or the economic and crime stuff that I’m working on. We don’t think the rules of the jungle should apply in social media platforms. We think the rules of a civil society should apply there, and just because they’re operated internationally, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be abiding by Australian Law.
JENNETT:
Obviously an ongoing piece of work. Okay, let’s bring it to the Budget. So, inflation. After a long struggle, virtually 2 years of struggle, expected to be around 3 per cent by the end of this calendar year. Tanya Plibersek used the word ‘hoping’ to be. Is that a firm forecast or is it a wish?
JONES:
Well, these are forecasts. These are produced independently by Treasury, looking at all of the fiscal policy and the monetary policy. And we’re confident that on the basis of all of the things that are available to us at the moment, all the information that we have available to us at the moment, that we can hit that target. Of course, we’re not immune from what’s going on around the world, whether it’s a slowdown in China or the impact of the US or the uncertainty in Middle East flowing over into oil prices, all of those things impact us. But based on what we have control of and on the information that we have available to us, we think that we can hit that target. And I can guarantee you that a centrepiece of the Budget that Jim hands down tomorrow night will be around cost of living, responsible spending to ensure that we can have fiscal and monetary policy working in tandem, bringing inflation down, 6 per cent when we came into government, down below 4, and hitting – aiming for the Reserve Bank target over the course of this year, we think we’re in good shape to hit it.
JENNETT:
Ok, so just explain cost‑of‑living relief that is outstanding. Cost‑of‑living relief that is not stage 3 tax cuts. So, others have used the word ‘targeted’. Will it be targeted at those who are outside of the personal income tax system?
JONES:
Now, Greg, you’ve been doing this a long time and you know that I’m not going to preempt what the Treasurer will say tomorrow night, but we’ve already given some indications of the area. Further investments in Medicare, ensuring that we can, where we will, provide targeted cost‑of‑living relief to households, particularly those doing it tough. Building on what we’ve already done in the last Budget, which was the targeted energy relief payments, the childcare subsidies, which have made a significant impact on households.
JENNETT:
Will it also build on what the states have recently announced? Because, of course, budgets take a while to prepare. But it was only last week that the states unpacked billions of dollars worth of cost‑of‑living relief, particularly on the energy front, to their constituents.
JONES:
Of course mindful of what the states are doing, again, won’t preempt what Jim will say tomorrow night, but we are 100 per cent focused on the needs of households around this country. We’ve already delivering our stage 3 tax cuts. We’ll deliver a tax cut to every Australian taxpayer coming into effect from 1 July. That’ll be the centrepiece of cost‑of‑living relief. But you can anticipate that we’ll be building on that and doing it in a way that doesn’t add to inflation, but in fact brings inflation down.
JENNETT:
All right, we will have more direct questions and hopefully much more direct answers when the covers come off after 7:30 tomorrow. Really appreciate it, Stephen Jones.