KIERAN GILBERT:
Joining me live in the studio now is the Assistant Treasurer, Stephen Jones. And we've got a lot to talk about today. Let's start with that Senate Committee report into PwC, calculated breach of trust, deliberate cover‑up. This is about those tax leaks. Have you seen anything like this in terms of the treatment of government information by a corporate entity?
STEPHEN JONES:
Flabbergasted Kieran. It's a pretty rough read if you go through it. They've done a good job of putting the spotlight on atrocious behaviour. A breach of trust, a breach of faith that's potentially led to the leak of millions of dollars worth of money that were owed to Australian taxpayers and uncovering a culture that is simply unacceptable.
GILBERT:
The committee has called for the names of the 63 partners and staff caught up in the scandal to be revealed, their details and names. Do you think that should happen?
JONES:
Reasonable. Very reasonable request and I think it's just the beginning of what needs to happen here. Of course, the Government has been going through its response. We'd already been on the path of bringing more work that had been outsourced and contracted out over the last decade back in house, uplifting our contracting requirements. We've got some ledge to come to beef up the powers of the Tax Practitioners Board. The bare minimum that PwC can do at this stage, as far as we're concerned, is come clean, be transparent about what's gone on, who was involved.
GILBERT:
Well, the Treasury's referred it to the AFP as well. Is there a broader stain on the consulting industry out of this?
JONES:
I don't think there's any doubt about that Kieran. I don't think there's any doubt that people are looking at PwC, massive brand damage in Australia and around the world. But they'll also be asking the question, is this just something that has gone on in one company or is it broader than that? So a pretty clear message to the rest of the industry, you're on notice, your behaviour is on notice and Australians expect a much higher standard.
GILBERT:
Does the Government feel, and do you think the Government should feel vindicated by bringing back a lot of those government services that had been outsourced back in‑house, as you put it?
JONES:
Yeah, 100 per cent. We've got to be able to build the capacity of the Australian Public Service so we can have frank and fearless advice coming from inside instead of having to go to these third‑party consultants to get that work done. I will say, though, the episode that started this was an attempt by the former government to consult with tax experts. Now, we want to be a government that consults, but if we can't trust the people we're consulting with, not to use that information against the Australian people, then we would have to think twice about the way we engaged in those consultation processes. We don't want to do that, which is why we've got to have a massive uplift in standards and procedures as a result of this event.
GILBERT:
On a few other matters, the Housing Australia Future Fund. The vote was delayed earlier in the week by the Greens and the Coalition combining on that. The Prime Minister had quite a stink with the Greens, let's put it that way, in the lower house, including giving Max Chandler‑Mather a gobful on the way out of the parliament yesterday. That's fine to have the fight, but you still want to get the bill through the parliament, don't you? So how are the prospects of that?
JONES:
We've got to get the bill through the parliament and frankly, the Green's behaviour over the last fortnight has been an act of bastardry. They say they support social housing, they want the Commonwealth to invest more money in social housing. We've set up a specialist fund to do that and we've provided an additional $2 billion. You got to ask yourself, what would be enough for the Greens in this area to get them to vote for something which is going to help people that need to put a roof over their head?
GILBERT:
Well, they're saying a rent freeze. That would be it.
JONES:
He's campaigned and joined the wrong parliament. If he really wanted to introduce laws for a rent freeze, he should have run for the Queensland Parliament or the NSW or the Victorian or any of those State Parliaments. He's in the Federal Parliament and we do federal work in the Federal Parliament, and that includes introducing laws to establish the Housing Australia Future Fund. Let's do what's within our jurisdiction and let the state governments do their job.
GILBERT:
Governor Lowe ends his term in September. Treasurer, your colleague said he'll make an announcement in July before parliament returns. It's fair to say Governor Lowe looks like he'll be moving on in September. That's most people's assumption.
JONES:
Look, I'm not going to speculate on that. Fair enough you asking us the question Kieran, but I'm not going to speculate on that. The Treasurer made it quite clear and his comments earlier today, a decision will be made over the course of the next month and that'll be announced in due course. The Cabinet will discuss the recommendations and a decision will be made and announced between now and then. The Governor and the whole Reserve Bank Board have got an important job to do, which is balancing that need to maintain full employment and ensure that we're bringing down inflation across the economy.
GILBERT:
It is a tricky path that they're on at the moment. We heard the deputy talking about having to have unemployment go up in order to get inflation down, so it's a bit of a rocky period. But do you feel that they're on the right track now in terms of where the economy is at? It's obviously rates have been rising very quickly. There's a chance of at least one or if not two.
JONES:
Yeah, look, 14 million Australians in work. Let's pause and just acknowledge that that is a great national achievement. The largest number of people in the workforce in our nation's history. And at a time when right around the world, unemployment is going up, ours is going down, that's a great national achievement. We don't want to lose that in the flight‑ in the fight to beat inflation, we want to ensure that we maintain high rates of employment, and indeed, our employment white paper that will be published later on in the year will go to our strategy to maintain that, fighting inflation critical because it's a tax on households and businesses. We from the government's point of view, and our fiscal strategy is around maintaining fiscal discipline and treading that narrow path, removing those supply constraints that have built up over such a long period of time to ensure that we're doing our bit to bring inflationary pressures down.
GILBERT:
Assistant Treasurer Stephen Jones appreciate it as always.