KIERAN GILBERT:
First, though, let's look at some other news now and ACCC recommendations to strengthen laws forcing tech giants to pay news publishers for content have been accepted by the government. The code requires digital platforms, including Google and Meta to negotiate fair prices for using Australian news content. And while the review recommendations are expected to bolster its effectiveness, many existing deals between big tech and media are up for renewal. News Corp and Sky News Australia have an existing commercial arrangement with Google and Meta. Let's bring in the Assistant Treasurer, Stephen Jones. Stephen, thanks for your time. Have talks begun for the next round of deals on this front, some expire early as 2024. And what's the reaction been from Google and Meta? Will they renew?
STEPHEN JONES:
Look, the importance of today's announcement is to send a very clear message to industry that we support journalism, we support journalists, and we want to see a viable news business in this country and that relies on social media platforms who are using content from journalists to ensure they pay fair value for it. We know that some of those deals expire very soon and we know that at least one of the companies has entered into discussions around replacements for those deals. But the message to industry is that we're backing journalism, we're backing news and that we're backing journalists, and we want to ensure that negotiations occur in good faith. And if there's any doubt, if there's any doubt that the government won't use the powers that are available to us, and particularly me as the Minister, well, let me put that doubt out of people's minds. We want negotiations to occur. Get in there, start negotiating, strike a deal, and if you think the government will blink, you're wrong.
GILBERT:
Yeah, well, that is welcome news. As I mentioned, a declaration at the start that Sky News has got commercial arrangements with both Google and Meta. And obviously we welcome your support of journalism, full stop. But have Google and Meta given any indication, Minister, of their intentions? Given some outlets, some media companies are concerned about their willingness that big tech's willingness to renew the deals.
JONES:
Yeah, look, I'll let the representatives of Google and Meta talk for themselves, but I've met with all of them and I've made it quite clear that I expect, and that the government expects negotiations to continue. Frankly, we don't want to have to use the big stick. We want commercial negotiations to occur the way they did last time and for them to occur on the basis of commercial principles. And whilst the attention has been on both Google and Meta, they're not the only social media platforms who are using news content produced in Australia on their platforms as well. So, it's not a closed envelope. We expect negotiations to occur. There's been some great innovation in social media platforms and online and big tech, but we want to ensure that we take the good with the bad and that we ensure that we have a viable news industry and we have viable journalism in this country. The government stands four‑square behind that.
GILBERT:
Yes, well, and I guess you've probably gone a fair way to answer this already, but I do want to put this to you, because one of your predecessors, Josh Frydenberg, when the deal was first established, he promised to force meaningful negotiations if need be, between big tech and our media companies if they didn't come to the table. Thankfully, it never got to that. Would the government go that far? Will the government do just that if Meta and Google fail to renew deals?
JONES:
No point having a power unless you're willing to use it. And the government and myself as the relevant Minister, have the power under the bargaining code to designate. We'd rather, and we'd prefer the businesses just roll their sleeves up, get in there and start negotiating. That's the A plan. But if anyone's wondering whether the government is willing to use the powers that we have available to us, let me put that doubt out of your mind. We absolutely are.
GILBERT:
Yeah, as I say, that is welcome. Just finally, what would you do? We've got to get to a news conference with the Queensland Premier, but I want to ask you, if Facebook repeated what they did in Canada earlier and briefly in Australia in 2021 when they blocked news, would you tolerate Facebook shutting down news here again?
JONES:
Look, we think that it's important that Australians continue to have access to news services across all the avenues that they're currently accessing that from. I don't want to contemplate that sort of behaviour. I just want to send a message to all the businesses involved that our A plan and our expectation is that you roll your sleeves up, you start negotiations and you strike a deal.
GILBERT:
And are you looking to ensure the fast rising platforms like TikTok and AI platforms are included in the bargaining code as well?
JONES:
Look, absolutely. As I said, a lot of focus and attention on Meta and Google, but they're not the only players in the game. You've mentioned TikTok and they've risen phenomenally since those original deals were struck. And if they're using content and the publishers believe that there is commercial value being utilised through those platforms, republishing their content and they think it's worth striking a deal, then they'll have the government's full support in pursuing those negotiations.
GILBERT:
Assistant Treasurer Stephen Jones. We appreciate your time today and throughout the year. We wish you and your family all the best for Christmas and the New Year. Catch you then.
JONES:
To you and all your crew Kieran. Thanks, mate.