LAURA JAYES:
We’re going to talk about cash now because the government has moved to protect those people who don’t want to continue to pay with cash. Joining me now is Assistant Treasurer Stephen Jones. Stephen, great to see you. First of all, this levy on the banks, whose idea was that?
STEPHEN JONES:
Look, we’re looking at ways that we can ensure that Australians, wherever they live, have access to banking services as they get around the country. A top‑order issue for people, whether they’re small businesses or ordinary Australians, is the fact that the banks are closing their doors and it’s getting harder and harder to get access to banking services. So, we want to ensure that people have that access. We’re exploring options that are available to us. Nothing closed down at the moment in terms of the direction we’ll go in, but absolutely a priority issue for us.
JAYES:
So, it’s not locked in that it’s a levy, then?
JONES:
Nothing locked in at the moment. We’re consulting on options, we’re asking Treasury –
JAYES:
– What are the other options if it’s not a levy?
JONES:
We’re asking Treasury to do background work on us and what some options are for us. So, bit early for us to be preempting the outcomes of those discussions, those considerations. But what I can say is our priority is ensuring that we maintain access to banking services for Australia, particularly in regional and urban Australia.
JAYES:
And you think the banks should be the ones doing the heavy lifting there?
JONES:
Well, they’re the ones who own the banking services, mate. They’re the ones who are closing branches. So, yes, there is a strong obligation on them, most of whom are making a tidy profit at the moment. We want to ensure that there is, they meet their social licence, their social obligation to provide services to people wherever they live.
JAYES:
Is everyone pulling their weight?
JONES:
Look, obviously if everyone was pulling their weight, we wouldn’t have the situation that we did where Australians are crying out and saying they want access to bricks and mortar services. Look, I will say this. Increasingly, Australians are doing their business online, they’re doing their business digitally, and that’s transformed the nature of modern banking. That’s not going to be unwound. But a lot of Australians, particularly in regional and urban Australia, still need access. They need to be able to go and talk to somebody, they need to be able to deposit their cash or withdraw their cash. Those services require face‑to‑face access.
JAYES:
I know you’ve been doing a lot of work on scams as well. This legislation, it’s going to be introduced this week. Do you believe that you’ve got the framework right, and where does the onus lay?
JONES:
So, we introduced it a fortnight ago. It’ll be debated in parliament this week.
JAYES:
Right, got it.
JONES:
It will put in place the toughest set of obligations on banks, social media companies, and telecommunications companies anywhere in the world. Nobody will have introduced a tougher set of obligations. It needs to pass through parliament. The Coalition have got to get on board with it. We’re losing $7 million a day, so every day of delay is another $7 million and older Australians are losing the most. So, we’ve got to get this through, we’ve got to get the protections in place. We want to make sure that Australia is the toughest country in the world for those criminals to be making a dollar and to be preying on Australians.
JAYES:
And is it big tech that you find most odious, let’s say, in getting away with doing the least?
JONES:
It’s a whole ecosystem. So, you know, Facebook would be the biggest publisher, sorry, Meta would be the biggest publisher of criminal scam content anywhere in the world. That’s where a hell of a lot of this stuff is being published. So, they haven’t got the protections in place to keep Australians safe. Neither do the other social media platforms. The telecommunications companies have got a lot more they can be doing. Australians are getting those annoying phone calls and messages, so more needs to be done there, and of course, banks need to do more too. We’ll set the standard. If they fail the standard, fines, penalties, and compensation will flow to consumers.
JAYES:
Well, who will monitor, who’s the oversight body and what level of personal responsibility do we hold when it comes to being scammed?
JONES:
Yeah, nothing will replace the need for Australians to be vigilant and to take care, and that’s the first line of defence. But scams are becoming increasingly more sophisticated, which is why social media platforms have got to be doing more to verify the identity of their advertisers. The Nine newspapers had some material over the weekend where they had examples of high‑profile Australians, including the Prime Minister, with voice‑altered and video‑altered technology using, to have them promoting scams and investment scams in particular. So, they’ve got a big obligation to remove this criminal content and not allow the criminal content to be there in the first place. They actually make money out of these scam ads. Australians are losing money, telcos as well. And banks have got to do much more to keep their customers’ money safe as well.
Who will oversee it? The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, the Consumer Watchdog has a key role in all of this. Strong new obligations will provide avenue for legal redress through our court system. I’m setting up a new avenue for people to go to the Australian Financial Complaints Tribunal as well. So, they have an ease of access mechanism to seek compensation if they’ve lost money. So, like a – without a word of exaggeration – the strongest and most comprehensive anti‑scam framework anywhere in the world. We’ve got to get it legislated. We’ve got 2 weeks of parliament left. We’ve got to get it legislated. The Coalition have got to get on board.
JAYES:
Ok, we will see. Thanks so much, Stephen. Great to see you.