MICHAEL ROWLAND:
Let’s bring you back home now and the federal government’s National Anti‑Scam Centre will officially be launched in Melbourne today. It’s a project the Assistant Treasurer Stephen Jones has been working very hard on, and he joins us now in the studio. Minister, very good morning to you.
STEPHEN JONES:
Good to be with you, Michael.
ROWLAND:
So, tell us about the Centre. What will be its key focus?
JONES:
Well, $3 billion worth of scams lost over the last 12 months, about half of that was investment scams, so we’re establishing the National Anti‑Scam Centre. It will have three functions. The first is disrupting the scammers’ activity and our first priority is going to be going after the investment scams because of the scale of it and losses are going up. I think the average loss is about $80,000 for each individual incident over the last 12 months.
ROWLAND:
It’s a lot of money.
JONES:
We’ll also be doing some education function in there as well, but also a referral service for people who have been scammed, particularly if they’ve had their ID compromised, giving them a referral off to a great community organisation known as IDCARE to help them get their identity and their documents back on track.
ROWLAND:
How concerning is it, because I know the Centre will be focused on this, that scams, particularly online scams, are becoming increasingly sophisticated and hard to pick from the naked eye?
JONES:
They’ve been industrialised since the pandemic and the people involved, incredibly sophisticated. The people who are running these scams, they’re more likely to have a psychology degree than a prison record. They know what they’re doing and know who their targets are, which is why we’ve got to firm up our defences, which is about disruption. It is about cutting off those vectors or the channels through which scams come to us. So, I’m working with my colleague, Michelle Rowland, with the telecommunications and the social media operators to see if we can put more hard barriers in to filter out more phone calls, filter out SMSs. We’re working on codes of practice to ensure that social media platforms are doing their bit as well because they’re a big vector for the scam activity. So, disruption, before the scam gets to the intended victim, is the focus of our activity.
ROWLAND:
Will the Centre have the power to go after alleged scammers?
JONES:
Absolutely. It’s not a law enforcement body so where it’s law enforcement there’s arrests and doors to be kicked down, that’s obviously a job for our law enforcement agencies at the state and federal level. But definitely targeting those scamming activity, working out where they’re coming from and using all the means available to us to try and stop them contacting their intended victim.
ROWLAND:
Okay. While I’ve got to you, you’re the Assistant Treasurer. We had confirmation last week the budget surplus for this year at the end of May was already over $19 billion, well above the $4.2 billion forecast in the Budget. I’m pretty bad at math’s but would I be wrong in saying that the surplus once we get the June figures will be well over $20 billion?
JONES:
It will be in and around that. So, there’s ons and offs to come in as we close off the financial year, work out what bills have got to be paid and where the revenue is coming in. It’s a good number, but we’re focused on the medium term, not just one budget figure and we know there’s structural problems with the budget, big expenses coming in, in aged care, the NDIS, in Defence. We’ve got to be able to meet not only this year’s and next year’s expenses but well over into the future.
ROWLAND:
Is that a roundabout way of saying that this extra money, this unexpected windfall, won’t be used for, say, further cost‑of‑living relief for Australians?
JONES:
Number one focus is paying down debt. We’ve already paid, we have some stuff starting actually on this week around improved rebates for child care, energy bill relief coming in. So, a range of measures, cost‑of‑living relief measures, already in the pipeline. But I want to make this point: inflation is a problem. Looks like it’s on the turn now and that’s good news, but the worst thing the federal government could do at the moment was to take that $19 billion, $20 billion, wherever it ends up, and dump it into the economy, which is already facing inflationary pressures, which is why restraint and paying down the trillion dollars’ worth of debt that we have on our books is our number one focus.
ROWLAND:
Finally, you’re a senior Minister. Are you worried about worsening diplomatic relations between Australia and England after the events, the wild events we saw at Lord’s overnight?
JONES:
As a cricket fan, I’ve got to say, Michael, it was pretty unfortunate. I think the cliche here is: it wasn’t cricket. That’s the home of cricket for any –
ROWLAND:
Oh you think the Australians were being unsportsmanlike?
JONES:
No, I’m thinking that the treatment they received in the Long Room –
ROWLAND:
In the Long Room. I just wanted to clarify that.
JONES:
– after the match was unsportsmanlike and not cricket and doesn’t reflect well on those involved. Tough game and between ourselves and the Poms it’s always, you know, taken to a new level. It’s always going to be hotly contested. I thought what happened after the match and during lunch yesterday – not good.
ROWLAND:
Yeah. Stephen Jones, I think most Australians would agree with you. Thank you so much for joining us in the News Breakfast studio.
JONES:
Great to be with you.