PETER STEFANOVIC:
Well, the Prime Minister says he makes no apologies for starting the conversation about winding back superannuation tax concessions. Live to Sydney now, joining us is the Assistant Treasurer and the Financial Services Minister, Stephen Jones. Minister, good to see you. Thanks for your time this morning. So, the Prime Minister and the Treasurer both said a few times during the election campaign there would be no changes to super. Are you about to break an election promise?
STEPHEN JONES:
No, absolutely not. In the context of those questions, we were asked about whether we were going to honour the laws which would move superannuation guarantee contribution to 12 per cent after three years of speculation under the Morrison government that they'd be axed, we confirmed our commitment that all of the bedrock underpinnings of superannuation would remain in place. In relation to the issue that you raise - caps on superannuation - this is about excessively high superannuation balances, and I'm not talking about superannuation balances of several hundred thousand dollars or even several million dollars. We have got accounts in Australia with in excess of $100 million in them, some well in excess of $10 million and $20 million in them getting amazing tax concessions - big cost on the budget. Superannuation is about retirement income, it's not about tax minimisation and it's not about estate planning. We intend to normalise and ensure that we have a sustainable system and of course, we're going to look at these things.
STEFANOVIC:
Okay, just back on that first question, though. So Anthony Albanese has said "We have no intention of making any super changes". Jim Chalmers has said "Australians should not expect major changes to superannuation". So, your take is that that is not related to the current tax cap issue when it comes to super?
JONES:
Of course it's not. It's got to be taken in the context of all that. We actually took policies to the election which foreshadowed that we'd make some changes, particularly some fine-tuning around the way superannuation funds are managed, the way they're regulated. We actually took promises to the election saying that we would be doing those things. So, when the Prime Minister made those comments, when the Treasurer made those comments, they're about those bedrock issues and about affirming that the government would not do what the previous government tried to do, and that was cut superannuation contributions. We fought for about four years to stop that happening and we're affirming that we had no intention of making those major changes to superannuation, including changes to the superannuation guarantee levy.
STEFANOVIC:
People are making investments here when it comes to super over a long period of time. Are you at risk of, eroding, confidence in the system?
JONES:
Very concerned that we provide Australians with long-term security, which is why this week the Treasurer launched our process through legislating an objective in superannuation. We feel very, very strongly about superannuation. Labor was the party which established it. Labor was the party which ensured that Australians over the next three years will have their superannuation contributions move to 12 per cent. We want to ensure that the super wars that have been so much a feature of politics over the last 30 years are put to bed, and one of the core ways of doing that is to ensure that we have a legislated objective of superannuation against which all future policy proposals can be measured.
STEFANOVIC:
Right.
JONES:
We started that process this week. It's about retirement savings. But I can affirm this: the party that created superannuation will be the party that protects it and assures that it is sustainable and is available to all Australians well into the future. We believe in it and we're the party which will ensure that it is sustainable and enduring well into the future.
STEFANOVIC:
The Grattan Institute has said that raising tax on retirement earnings over $2 million, so from 15 per cent to 30 per cent, that would raise about $1.5 billion a year. A small sum in the general scheme of things. But is that a better alternative than a cap on contributions?
JONES:
Look again, we're getting to the issue of what is the objective of superannuation? If we all agree the objective of superannuation is about retirement income, then I challenge anyone to say that superannuation balances in excess of $100 million are about retirement income. They're about something else, they're about tax minimisation or estate planning. And we've got to put an end to the use or the distortion of superannuation for those sorts of purposes. The most effective and efficient way of doing that is to say, let's have a look at what the maximum amount an ordinary Australian can put in their superannuation should be. And above that, we'll look at different arrangements. Can we put this in context, by the way? The average Australian woman today has about $120,000 in retirement in her superannuation account. The average Australian male, about $180,000. This is a long, long, long way away from the $100 million or even the $10 million that we are looking at in relation to these caps.
STEFANOVIC:
Aged care workers. Just on another economic matter, Stephen. Aged care workers to receive 15 per cent pay rise from July 1. Do you expect this to add to inflationary pressures?
JONES:
Look, we know that we've got a big problem in aged care. We know that aged care is struggling to attract workers to the workforce because the money is elsewhere. Which is why we promised before the election that we would fund the Fair Work decision in relation to increasing aged care wages, and we will do that. One of the biggest constraints, I've got to say, and the biggest problems we're facing in the aged care is they simply can't get the workers. And by providing a modest wage increase, as decided by the independent Fair Work Commission, is a way of - it's going to be a way to ensure they can attract and retain the workers. And I don't think there's any reasonable Australian who would say paying aged care workers a fair living wage is not something that shouldn't be quibbled about. It's something that we should all be getting in line.
STEFANOVIC:
Just a final one here, too, just as a senior member of government. Quite a concerning warning from Mike Burgess overnight, he said that he had been pressured by public servants and academics, to name a few, to ease up on espionage operations within the country, bearing in mind that it's some of the worst it's ever been in ASIO's history. How troubled are you by that?
JONES:
A concerning revelation. Australia is very well served by our national security agencies, and the revelations that Mr Burgess will make today as he provides his annual security update sends a clear message to all Australians that we can't be complacent. It's in the interests of our national security, our enduring democracy and our place in the world that we take this national security threats including spies operating in Australia seriously. And that has to occur at all levels of government and all levels of business.
STEFANOVIC:
Stephen Jones, we'll leave it there. Appreciate your time, talk to you soon.