PETER STEFANOVIC:
Prominent Yes campaigner Marcia Langton has claimed most No arguments are based on racism or sheer stupidity. Ms Langton made the claims at a forum in Western Sydney on the weekend.
[Excerpt]
MARCIA LANGTON:
Every time the No case raises one of their arguments, if you start pulling it apart, you get down to base racism. I’m sorry to say it, but that’s where it lands – or just sheer stupidity.
[End excerpt]
STEFANOVIC:
She has since claimed her criticism was aimed at the No campaign rather than individual No voters. Minister for Indigenous Australians Linda Burney has called for more care and respect in debates on the upcoming Voice to parliament referendum.
Let’s go to Canberra to get more on this now. Joining us live is the Assistant Treasurer and the Financial Services Minister, Stephen Jones. Stephen, good to see you. Thanks for your time this morning. So it seems the racism card’s been played now. Are the comments by Marcia Langton a nail in the coffin for the Yes campaign?
STEPHEN JONES:
I think Marcia’s made some clarifying statements overnight in relation to what she said over the weekend. But I think Linda Burney’s comments in parliament yesterday really are the direction that all campaigners need to go – let’s have a civil debate, let’s have one that is respectful, let’s have one that is based on the facts. And, you know, there’s no doubt that some pretty silly things have been said in parliament over the last few weeks. We want to ensure that this is a debate which focuses on the facts and one which is conducted with respect. And that’s what the government is calling for.
STEFANOVIC:
Do you support the comments by Marcia Langton?
JONES:
I support the comments of Linda Burney –
STEFANOVIC:
What about Marcia Langton?
JONES:
As I said, I support the comments of Linda Burney. I think Marcia Langton, who has been an outstanding Indigenous leader over many, many decades – I ask you to think us about, Peter: you’ve seen some of the stuff that has been put out. You’ve seen the things that have been appearing in people’s Facebook feeds and in their emails and in their letter boxes. Some of it is pretty atrocious. I find it offensive. I’m sure you and I’m sure many of the No campaigners would find it offensive. Put yourself in the shoes of an Indigenous person having to read the sort of rubbish that has been put around. It’s not the majority of the stuff, but there’s certainly a fair bit of stuff that has been put around which is offensive. It’s understandable that people are feeling some hurt and frustration when that stuff is being put around, which is why it’s all the more reason that we heed the comments of Indigenous leaders like Noel Pearson and the comments of Linda Burney the parliament yesterday. Let’s have a civil, robust debate which is based on facts and is, in the words of Noel Pearson, based on love.
STEFANOVIC:
Okay. Sure, but Marcia Langton is the news story this morning. It’s her comments. So do you support those comments that she said?
JONES:
Mate, I don’t think I could have been any more clearer, Pete.
STEFANOVIC:
Well, you didn’t answer it at all.
JONES:
I don’t think I could have been any more clearer.
STEFANOVIC:
You pivoted to everyone else except Marcia Langton.
JONES:
Marcia Langton has herself issued some comments overnight.
STEFANOVIC:
Yes.
JONES:
And I share the frustration of many people who’ve in parliament or in their homes or in their communities seen some pretty outrageous and stupid things said, sometimes ventilated by political leaders. Things that they absolutely know are untrue, and yet they have used parliament as a forum to ventilate those statements. Yep, from time‑to‑time people get frustrated by those. But the direction of this government and the direction of the campaign is one based on civil debate, on respect and on truth. And I have great faith that the Australian people will get it right.
STEFANOVIC:
Okay. So you mentioned that some of the comments have been offensive. Have they been racist?
JONES:
Look, some of the stuff that has been put out has been absolutely not true – absolutely not true. And I’m pretty certain that a whole heap of the people –
STEFANOVIC:
By the No camp you’re referring to here?
JONES:
Some of it is not officially authorised. Some of it comes up in the community forums that I’ve held and others have held. A whole heap of that stuff is ventilated and repeated in parliament by people who should know better and do know better, which is why in the final four to five weeks of this campaign it is absolutely critical that we focus on the facts, that we focus on the truth and that we have a civil and respectful debate.
STEFANOVIC:
Okay, but back to the R word, back to the comments of Marcia Langton, “If you start pulling it apart you get down to base racism.” Do you agree with that point?
JONES:
Pete, I think Marcia Langton herself has clarified her own statements over the last 24 hours –
STEFANOVIC:
Okay, but on that clarification she says –
JONES:
You are asking me – no. No, no, no, no, no. No, I just want to – Pete, I just want to answer your question straight up. Do I think that racist things have been said in the course of this campaign? Yes, I do. You would have heard them. I would have heard them. Do I think the majority of Australians are basing their views on that? Absolutely no, I don’t. I think Australians are a big‑hearted and generous people who want to have the facts out there so they can make their own decision based on the future direction of this country. This is a campaign which is –
STEFANOVIC:
So which comments are racist?
JONES:
Comments, for example, that Gary Johns has made, that even some of the prominent No campaigners have distanced themselves from over the last 24 hours. Comments that I’ve seen in my mailbox, that I’m certain you’ve seen in your mailbox – conspiracy theories, a whole bunch of stuff that has been put around which people know are untrue, or should know are untrue, and are being ventilated. I’m not going to give them additional oxygen by repeating them on your program today. What I am saying, though, Pete – and repeating the language of Linda Burney in parliament yesterday – let’s have a civil, and respectful debate in the final weeks of this campaign, and let’s put our faith in the Australian people to get it right.
STEFANOVIC:
Okay. So as part – just finally here – as part of Professor Langton’s clarification, she continued. She did say, “I have not said that the No voters are racist. The No campaign is using racism to pedal their deceitful wares. So in that sense she’s doubled down, and from what you’ve just said, it sounds like you agree with her.
JONES:
Pete, I’m telling you what I think, and what I think is that there is absolutely no doubt that in the course of this campaign stuff has been said which is absolutely not true. And, yes, there’s been racist material floating around in the course of this campaign. There’s no doubt about that. I’d be flabbergasted if you hadn’t seen it because anybody who’s got a Facebook account who have seen it. Do I think the majority of Australians agree with it? Absolutely not. I think Australians are a generous, big‑hearted people who want to see us reconcile with First Nations people and want to ensure that we can have a debate about the future of our constitution in a civil way based on facts and truth.
STEFANOVIC:
Do you think you’re going to get civility in the next four weeks.
JONES:
Certainly hope so, Pete. Certainly hope so.
STEFANOVIC:
Okay. Stephen Jones, appreciate your time as always. We’ll talk to you again soon.