RACHEL MEALEY:
Stephen Jones is the Assistant Treasurer and Minister for Financial Services. Thanks for joining us on Radio National Drive.
STEPHEN JONES:
Hi Rachel, good to be with you.
MEALEY:
Once legislated, this new tax will be backdated from the 1st of January next year. It’s that time of year when many people in both media and tech are wrapping up the work year and switching their out‑of‑office messages on. Are the big tech companies going to have to cut their Christmas leave short to get these deals done?
JONES:
Look, we’ve obviously been talking with them and the publishers and broadcasters for some time now. I don’t think this will come as a complete surprise to them. But let’s just bear in mind what’s the public policy, what’s the issue here we’re trying to resolve and that is that any healthy democracy and free society needs a healthy and free news media and journalism sector. We want to support it. There’s no doubt that the traditional business model for news media has been challenged and smashed around by the entry of digital platforms which use the content, don’t pay for it, but have taken the lion’s share of the advertising revenue. So, this is about balancing this out and creating incentive for commercial deals between broadcasters and publishers and the tech platforms. We think it’s the right model. It’s a tax that doesn’t intend to raise any revenue. It’s about driving an incentive to enter commercial agreements.
MEALEY:
Earlier this week, Google renewed its news licencing deal with Country Press Australia. Will existing deals be enough to see big tech companies exempt from this tax or do they need to sign additional deals from that January 1 date?
JONES:
The way that we’re putting these arrangements in place will mean that platforms can get an offset, a very generous offset for the deals that they’ve done. So, it’ll be more than one for one, let me put it that way. For every dollar spent, they’ll get more than that by way of offset to discharge their liability.
MEALEY:
What stops these companies from simply signing one or 2 deals with the big players like News Corp and us here at the ABC and neglecting to cut deals with smaller players, particularly in the regions?
JONES:
We’ll design this in a way to ensure that there’s a fair and equitable distribution of offsets. We want to ensure that you can’t offset your liability by one or 2 deals, that there needs to be a multiplicity of deals reflecting the variety of voices and locations that are necessary for a healthy democracy and a healthy news media sector.
MEALEY:
The incentive will see digital platforms pay less if they strike voluntary agreements with news media businesses. This policy, it sounds more carrot than stick. If these companies refuse to comply, does the government – can you explain what the stick option is?
JONES:
The stick option is collecting the revenue in the same way as we would with any other tax liability. I’d encourage your listeners, if they’re looking for an analogy, to think of the Medicare surcharge levy, which is designed not so much to raise revenue but to encourage people to take out private health insurance if they’re over a certain income level. Same sort of thinking. We actually don’t want to collect the revenue; we want to incentivise deal‑making.
MEALEY:
And what companies do you think will come under this strategy?
JONES:
Well, we’ve picked a threshold of $250 million. That’s not just plucked out of the air. The original purpose of the News Media Bargaining Code, which this is designed to strengthen, was to balance the bargaining relationship between local news outlets and large multinational tech platforms, and that’s why we’ve fixed on that threshold. So, $250 million worth of local businesses worth – sorry, $250 million worth of local Australian‑sourced revenue struck at that level. Pretty certain that it would take in the businesses like Meta that you’ve discussed and TikTok and Google, there may be others, but we’re certain that it would embrace the activities of those businesses.
MEALEY:
The big ones. If any revenue is raised through that tax, how would that be distributed between media companies?
JONES:
Be distributed on the same basis as we’re seeking to, on the same principles that lie behind this, and that is to ensure that there is a sustainable basis for funding journalism. So, a fund will be established. My colleague Michelle Rowland will be out in the very near future with further details about that. It’s not the only measure we have on fortune that we’re planning to support journalism and news media in this country.
MEALEY:
Assistant Treasurer Stephen Jones is with me on Radio National Drive following the government’s announcement of a new charge for big tech companies who don’t make deals with news organisations. Just finally, Australia’s unemployment rate fell to 3.9 per cent in November, down from 4.1 per cent in October. I’m sure you’re welcoming this news, but it means it’s less likely we’ll see a cut in interest rates, doesn’t it?
JONES:
Can we focus on the good news story? The good news story is that there are more Australians in work today than there has ever been, and that means more workers with more money in their pocket over the Christmas period, and that’s unequivocally a good story. In partnership with government and business more jobs are being created, more Australians in work than ever before, and that’s got to be a good thing.
MEALEY:
Assistant Treasurer and Minister for Financial Services Stephen Jones, thanks very much for joining me.
JONES:
Great to be with you, Rachel.