THOMAS ORITI:
It's been a busy few days for shoppers looking to take advantage of some big sales, some of the biggest of the year, Black Friday, Cyber Monday as they're called. Now last week we brought you a warning to be vigilant online, particularly during times like this with scammers creating fake websites to try to cheat you out of your money. The new National Anti‑Scam Centre has been trying to crack down on this issue and says it's making progress, in its first four months of operation, losses are down 16 per cent. So let's get more on that now. We're joined by Stephen Jones, Assistant Treasurer and Minister for Financial Services. Stephen, good morning to you.
STEPHEN JONES:
Tom good morning, good to be with you.
ORITI:
Can you just remind us about how important a centre like this is, I mean, how much money are Australians losing to scams?
JONES:
Three billion a year. And that number was until recently going up by 80 per cent a year. That's $3 billion from small businesses and households and every one of those dollars has got a tragedy behind it. People thinking that they were investing in a product or a service to secure their finances and it only turned out to be a scam or a romance scam, or somebody thinking they were paying a tradie for a bill only to find out it was a fake invoice. These are sorts of the things that we've been cracking down on. As you said in your intro early signs that the strategies we've put in place, the National Anti‑Scam Centre, the web takedown service that we've given money to ASIC to do and the SMS blocking that we're doing through the telecommunications companies are early signs this is working. There's more to come.
ORITI:
And I want to ask you about that in a minute and what the centre is doing. But that's a lot of money, I mean, do we stand out in that regard? Is Australia being seen as a particularly vulnerable target when it comes to scammers, at least up until this point?
JONES:
It's true that wealthier countries and well connected countries around the world are getting the most attention from these international gangs who are preying on households. They're mostly being conducted, not exclusively, but mostly being conducted offshore. There are some onshore ones as well, particularly ones targeting certain migrant groups. What we saw is during the pandemic, these numbers went through the roof and they really didn't come down until now. The things that the scammers are looking for, people with more money, people who've got a mobile phone or an internet account. And these are the sorts of things that they've been focusing on, which has given us a hint about what we've got to do to take them on. And that is to have a look at an ecosystem approach, one that looks at how the scammers are contacting you, what the tactics they're using and fight back against them on that basis.
ORITI:
Let's look, you know, you mentioned there some of the strategies that National Anti‑Scam Centre has been using. It just launched in July. So, early days. I do note that despite a decrease in scam losses in some areas, though, there's been a 25 per cent rise in false billing scams. Tell us about that. How do you combat, I guess, the evolution of scams? They do seem like they're ever changing.
JONES:
Yeah, so we crack down in one area and they pop up in another. Which is why we've got to have a comprehensive strategy and we (have) got to be continually vigilant. The false invoice scams, somebody gets a tradie in to do a job or a business receives a multitude of invoices and they're busy and they're not focusing and they're just paying all the invoices that they get, or a household does the same thing. And in amongst all of those, there's a fake invoice, they pay the invoice and little do they know that the money's gone off to a scammer or sometimes it's an invoice interception scam where they see a job of work has been done at a business or at a household, the scammer sends a bill to the household pretending to be the business, the person does the right thing and pays the bill and only to find that the tradie he's on their back, saying, "You haven't paid my bill." they say, "I have." and then they discover that they've been scammed by a fake invoice. So, new strategies putting into place. Welcome the fact that on Friday, the associations representing the big banks and the little ones so COBA and the ABA announced new strategies, a new accord, one of which is confirmation of payee. Why is that important? When the scammers send a fake invoice, they might have the right name but the wrong bank account number. Under this new arrangement, when you put the bank account number in, a name will flash up and it'll give the consumer an alert as to whether it's the right business or not that they're paying.
ORITI:
Can I just ask you about another issue while we've got you there, Stephen Jones because we'll get a better idea of how inflation has been tracking with monthly numbers being released this week. It's happening on Wednesday and many economists are expecting a dip from 5.6 per cent annually down to 5.2. I just want to get your thoughts on that. Do you think that'll be enough to show that inflation is finally steadily falling?
JONES:
Well, inflation is moderating, we know that. But living in uncertain times and right around the world we're seeing countries dealing with these issues. Of course, energy prices are feeding through to every aspect of our economy, so there is uncertainty there. We know the strategies that we've put in place through tightening our fiscal policy and some targeted cost of living relief is having a material difference. I think the Treasury estimates it's taken about 0.5 per cent off the headline inflation numbers, that's good. We've just got to maintain the discipline. From a government perspective, the independent Reserve Bank will make its decisions. But there's good news amongst all of this. The labour market is incredibly strong. Wages are starting to turn around again, which is good. So, there's not many countries around the world that would rather keep their situation and not have ours. So, in all of that, there are reasons for optimism.
ORITI:
Can I just ask as well, just touching on something you just mentioned there because later this week the government's expected to introduce this legislation. It's with that aim of strengthening and modernising the Reserve Bank. Can you give us a hint, what are some of the key points of the bill?
JONES:
Look, a couple of key things there. Firstly, to ensure that we confirm that monetary policy has two objectives, not one, and that is both price stability and contributing to full employment, mandating the overarching principle of the Reserve Bank, which is to promote economic prosperity and the welfare of the Australian people both now and into the future. A key structural change is establishing a Monetary Policy Board with monetary policy experts and a separate governance board. A lot of people wouldn't know that the Reserve Bank deals with a lot of things apart from just monetary policy, including the payment systems and banknotes and a range of other functions that they have quite apart from running a large institution. We want the deliberations around monetary policy to be focused, the focus of the Monetary Policy Board, and that the people who are deliberating on that have monetary policy expertise.
ORITI:
Okay Stephen Jones, thanks for joining us.
JONES:
Tom. Good to be with you.
ORITI:
Stephen Jones, Assistant Treasurer and Minister for Financial Services.