TOM CONNELL:
Joining me now, the Assistant Treasurer Stephen Jones. Thank you for your time. Just starting on this then, because it’s something a lot of parents are thinking about. We’ve had indications on where the federal government might do. Is it fair to say that support for something pretty tough is hardening within the federal government on acting here?
STEPHEN JONES:
Look, there’s strong support in the community, Tom, for greater age limits and controls on who accesses social media. I’m talking about kids, of course. Strong support from parent groups, strong support in the broader community welcome the fact that the South Australian and New South Wales government have taken some initiative. They’ve got public forums and they’re proposing interventions. I’ve got to say it will make sense that as a nation we have a national response to this. And that’s why the Prime Minister, the Communications Minister, and others have got a forward leaning approach to this. We’ve flagged our intent to look at legislation and we’ve got a pilot process underway for the means by which you would introduce age verification arrangements in place. But I think the traffic’s all one way on this in Australia, Tom, and that is that Australians want an uplift in the standards that exist there.
CONNELL:
Then there’s what we see on social media, of course, you’ve got your news bargaining code, which Meta, the owner of Facebook, is not seemingly keen to engage in. So, from that, the designation process, would you follow through or will you follow through on that, even if Meta is going to totally ignore it, to show that you’re serious about it?
JONES:
Tom, we’re looking at all the tools that are available to the government, including that. We want to ensure that social media companies, including Meta, continue to make a contribution to public interest journalism in this country. Big fan of social media, but a bigger fan of public interest journalism and the roles that journalists play in our democracy. It’s absolutely critical that we have viable news businesses in this country. I think it’s established policy that social media platforms should make a contribution to that effort. We’re working across a range of portfolios and looking at a range of different initiatives that we might use, including the one that is available in the News Media Bargaining Code.
CONNELL:
But is that sort of the first port of call, the way you describe it? Because you have designation, that’s the process. So, do you follow that through to avoid it looking like your bluff’s been called, and then from there, see if you get more drastic? Is that the sort of flow of what will happen if you like?
JONES:
Yeah, thanks, Tom. It’s not about a game and it’s not about bluffs and all of that sort of stuff. It’s about ensuring that the government response is one that works. The News Media Bargaining Code, developed in 2010, operated in – legislative, sorry, 2020, legislated in 2021. Perfectly sensible tool for the circumstances back then. We’ve got to ensure that what we do in 2024 and beyond is going to be durable and something that works in 2024, which is why we’re taking a very considered and deliberate approach to how we respond. Of course, the powers available to me under the News Media Bargaining Code are amongst those that we are considering.
CONNELL:
Does that mean you might not go the designation path if you thought it would do nothing? Is that what you’re saying there?
JONES:
I’m not going to be drawn on that at this stage, Tom. What I will say is what we are working on is a range of measures that will work, a range of measures that will ensure that Australians, whether they’re watching on telly, whether they’re listening, sorry, whether they’re reading on a newsprint publication or they’re reading online or accessing that content through a social media platform, they’re able to do that. But the people who are producing that content get rewarded for it. And the businesses that are employing the journalists are viable. That’s what we’re focused on, ensuring that we have a viable news media industry in this country.
CONNELL:
But, you know should same case people that don’t know, that this was something that Sky News has skin in the game. I always like to say that to have viewers make up their mind. So on that, if Facebook or Meta –
JONES:
I think we can take that as read, Tom, and I think you can take as read the government’s commitment to back journalism in this country and to ensure that we have a raft of policy responses that are going to work.
CONNELL:
Yeah, no, that was not a contrary to anything you were saying. I just thought, oh, I should have, you know, declared that in the interest of being open and upfront and a trustworthy organisation I hope. So, if Facebook or Meta go down this other path of just scrapping news, is that an unacceptable outcome because you’re right now also trying to legislate around misinformation? Wouldn’t Facebook become just a swill of misinformation if that did happen, so that you couldn’t just let that happen? You’d have to look at other options to keep Facebook honest if it were social licence, whatever it would be.
JONES:
Something is very much in the forefront of our mind. We want to ensure that when Australians are going to social media platforms, that there are players of robust debate, but they’re also a place where things that are just outright untrue and socially harmful aren’t proliferating and aren’t proliferating unchallenged. And the mis and disinformation laws are one of the measures that we’re looking at to deal with that. The Attorney‑General, Mark Dreyfus, has already announced and is introducing other measures around what we could only describe as criminal and harmful content online. So, I think you’ll see across all the measures that we’ve got in place, an attempt to ensure that social media platforms are enjoyable, safe places for people to go to get information, to conduct commerce and to talk to each other in the way that they do.
CONNELL:
We hope not so much misinformation. We’re going to leave it there. Got to get to a press conference. Stephen Jones, thank you, talk soon.